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Old 17-01-2010, 00:08   #16
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Found a couple of items of interest. The first is a short article of Life Rafts and the second is a the ISO 9650-1.

Great Circle Life Rafts - Get to Know Life Rafts
http://www.4ocean.si/novice/Rules/ISO_9650-1_2005_PDF_version_(en).pdf

Does any one know if ISO 9650-1 is generally the highest standard in which to comply. Or is there others?

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Old 17-01-2010, 03:05   #17
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Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
There have been a couple people really unhappy with Givens recently. This is second hand information, byt the company may have gotten itself into a cash crunch and seem to have not been deliverying some ordered and paid for rafts.
This sort of post is unfortunate, in that it will give readers an impression that the Givens Company are not to be trusted - it admits to being second hand information - from whom ? - whatever, it amounts to be no more than innuendo at least and libelous at worst. If proof cannot be produced of Givens's malfeasance then the member should be moderated.
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Old 17-01-2010, 03:11   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laidback View Post
If proof cannot be produced of Givens's malfeasance .
There is a quite explicit public "first hand" thread on the SSCA board about this issue.

My council was simple and sensible, that one be careful about payment and delivery terms when knowingly walking into this sort of situation.
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Old 17-01-2010, 03:34   #19
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Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
There is a quite explicit public "first hand" thread on the SSCA board about this issue.

My council was simple and sensible, that one be careful about payment and delivery terms when knowingly walking into this sort of situation.
With respect, what may have been posted on the "SSCA board" is of little consequence (whoever they may be), what matters is what posted here
on the Cruisers Forum, in that the allegation should backed by fact not second hand innuendo. Repetition of unproven statements are not acceptable.
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Old 17-01-2010, 03:54   #20
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With respect
With respect, I was trying just to offer a fellow cruiser a sensible warning, without dragging too many details out into public.

In response to your first criticism I just offered a pointer to a discussion that is already public - and if you don't know who the SSCA are you obviously don't know much about the cruising community.

If you want me to drag more details out into public I can and will. We know first-hand two people who have had delivery problems with Givens. But I prefer not to go down that road and just leave this topic with the original note of caution.

You sound like you may have a financial interest in this company. Do you really want a discussion about the details of various people who have had difficulties?
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Old 17-01-2010, 04:07   #21
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Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
We know first-hand two people who have had delivery problems with Givens. But I prefer not to go down that road and just leave this topic with the original note of caution.

You sound like you may have a financial interest in this company. Do you really want a discussion about the details of various people who have had difficulties?
Another innuendo " that 'You sound like you may have a financial interest in this company.' How did you arrive at that?

It's all very well to say " But I prefer not to go down that road and just leave this topic with the original note of caution." When your original post provided no supportive evidence of fraud on the part of the Givens Company.

It is a great pity your responses have now descended into personal attacks.

The way to offer a fellow cruiser a sensible warning is by means of a PM,
not some unsubstantiated gossip.
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Old 17-01-2010, 06:34   #22
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Laidback has pretty much established he is a lawyer and has some interest in Givens, since he has ducked the opportunity to deny it. Unsubstantiated gossip is what the discussion boards are based on, and it doesn't take a genius to determine who is blowing smoke.

While Givens may make a good product, its pretty clear to me that they will have to improve their treatment of their customers if they want to stay in business. While Givens finally delivered what they promised to the SSCA posters, it took way too many phone calls and way too long to make it happen.
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Old 17-01-2010, 06:47   #23
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I'm shocked, shocked, I say, to find rumor and innuendo on the internet. Heaven forbid.

Sorry, I disagree. I think we are all grown up enough to handle information from all sources and process it the way we do all the other information on this damn machine.

Jim
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Old 17-01-2010, 06:58   #24
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Originally Posted by Laidback View Post
With respect, what may have been posted on the "SSCA board" is of little consequence (whoever they may be), what matters is what posted here
on the Cruisers Forum, in that the allegation should backed by fact not second hand innuendo. Repetition of unproven statements are not acceptable.
You may have a point here. If you want to see "little consequence", check out their well written, very clear policies.
Givens Buoy Life Rafts - Safety Equipment & Liferafts

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Old 17-01-2010, 07:26   #25
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Can anyone tell me if this is actually Givens? They do seam to have the same policies. Laidback?
Sail Safety Gear :: Leader's In Marine Safety Equipment ::
It would be interesting to know and if it is, it would be interesting to know why they'd do that.

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