Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 29-11-2015, 08:13   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Lancaster Co., PA/North East, MD
Boat: Watkins 27
Posts: 107
Send a message via Yahoo to deltaten
Jacklines and fall protection devices?

A recent post concerning jacklines spurred some thought and research. I need to add new/better harness and tag lines. My little 27 footer doesn't have a bunch of room/places to install jacklines conveniently/safely.

Having been in the construction trades most of my working life, I started looking at fall protection from that angle. There are several devices that are listed as "fall limiters" or "personal safety devices" that appear to possibly work better tthan typical solutions.

For those not familiar, these work like a recoiling dog leash..on a grand scale Honeywell/Miller is one of the largest manufacturers. They list specs as 400# and limit to 2 foot arrest. Lengths of safety lines vary to near 18 feet! These are usually tagged onto the "H" harness like a typical leash; but allow a spec'd distance travel.

I foresee a limiter fastened to central point (mast?) and meclipped on, able to move from 'pit to forestay without encumbtance or having to clip/unclip/reclip at several points.
Now to find an inflatable PFD that'll work with my (potential) rig?

Wondering if the device couldn' be clipped to the mast and use the "clip off" end to attach to harness?? This would lightenload and bulk on harness . Just might hafta call Miller and ask
__________________

__________________
deltaten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2015, 08:35   #2
Guy
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: So. Oregon, USA
Boat: Seafarer36c
Posts: 4,308
Re: Jacklines and fall protection devices?

If that equipment has any steel parts , it will look bad in no time.
__________________

__________________
Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2015, 08:39   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Toronto area when not cruising
Boat: Bristol 45.5
Posts: 668
Re: Jacklines and fall protection devices?

I agree about the possible problems with corrosion. Even most stainless rusts badly.
__________________
Still looking for our next boat. Have decided we want to have something that will keep us happy for the next 10 years or so. By then I will be pushing 80 and if i am still sailing that will be a very good thing.
AiniA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2015, 09:00   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Lancaster Co., PA/North East, MD
Boat: Watkins 27
Posts: 107
Send a message via Yahoo to deltaten
Re: Jacklines and fall protection devices?

Agreed on the corrosion issue. But.these units are OSHA aproved and usually used in outdoor environments. ANY safety equipment should be inspected before use and dead-lined for any problems
AFA "looking bad"? As long as it passes spec'd function checks, why would I care how it looks??
Fortunately, for now, I sail in mostly fresh water. Once I head South, there will be more salinity to deal with A simple rinse in freshwater and dry stow below should take care of the corrosion issue for some time.
__________________
deltaten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2015, 09:07   #5
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Long Beach, CA
Boat: Tayana Vancouver 42
Posts: 1,854
Re: Jacklines and fall protection devices?

The most important issue with jack lines on a boat isn't shock absorbency for a fall, it is keeping you on the boat. You don't want to be able to leave the deck and be in the water even though you are attached to the boat by a fall protection device. Low stretch and the shortest length that will allow you to work on deck is what you want.


S/V B'Shert
__________________
Tayana42 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2015, 09:13   #6
Guy
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: So. Oregon, USA
Boat: Seafarer36c
Posts: 4,308
Re: Jacklines and fall protection devices?

Quote:
Originally Posted by deltaten View Post
AFA "looking bad"? As long as it passes spec'd function checks, why would I care how it looks??
Fortunately, for now, I sail in mostly fresh water. Once I head South, there will be more salinity to deal with A simple rinse in freshwater and dry stow below should take care of the corrosion issue for some time.
Rusty equipment sucks. Rust flakes get everywhere, little parts stop working etc.. Plain steel has no place above deck on a fiberglass boat.
__________________
Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2015, 09:56   #7
Registered User
 
thomm225's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Hampton Roads
Boat: 1974 Bristol 27
Posts: 3,469
Re: Jacklines and fall protection devices?

I bought a tether and a jackline a few years back then realized that if I did fall I'd be dragged along behind the boat unless I could get myself into a good position to pull myself back to the boat..

So, when I do want to be attached to the boat, I use the tether only which in most places onboard it doesn't allow me to fall off and in other I'd be right beside the boat. (I have a narrow 8' boat)

And I replaced my 40 year old wire lifelines with new "rope" lifelines (Dyneema/polyester)
__________________
thomm225 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2015, 10:36   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Probably in an anchorage or a boatyard..
Boat: Ebbtide 33' steel cutter
Posts: 3,540
Re: Jacklines and fall protection devices?

I use a grigri and short length of climbing dyneema as a lanyard, moments to adjust to whatever length you want. Wouldn't really trust retractable fall arrest devices onboard, the spring mechanism probably would last.
__________________
conachair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2015, 10:51   #9
Writing Full-Time Since 2014
 
thinwater's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 4,347
Re: Jacklines and fall protection devices?

I like outside the box thinking. But I see problems (in addition to others that have been mentioned--many would obviously be solved in a marine version, if this turned out to be a good idea):
  1. When at the bow there will be about 8' of slack, more in larger boats. That will leave you way in the water.
  2. The catch is triggered by a certain fall speed. I don't think a slide would trigger it.
When I had a smaller boat I had a single jackline from the mast to mid-foredeck. The tether would reach over the cabin top to the cockpit. I clipped a long leg in the cockpit, and a short leg forward. And stay very low on small boat; the life lines will catch you if you are crawling. And a GOOD toe rail; many are way too small, in my opinion. A toe rail can be the main thing far forward.
__________________
Gear Testing--Engineering--Sailing

Writing full-time since 2014.
Bookstore:http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/20...ook-store.html
thinwater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2015, 11:01   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: BC
Boat: O'Day 40
Posts: 282
Re: Jacklines and fall protection devices?

Very extensive study here.
https://www.morganscloud.com/

This is a complicated problem with no easy answers.
__________________
Trying to make new mistakes.
bcboomer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2015, 11:04   #11
Registered User
 
hodgmo's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Santa Barbara
Boat: Islander 36
Posts: 27
Re: Jacklines and fall protection devices?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayana42 View Post
The most important issue with jack lines on a boat isn't shock absorbency for a fall, it is keeping you on the boat. You don't want to be able to leave the deck and be in the water even though you are attached to the boat by a fall protection device. Low stretch and the shortest length that will allow you to work on deck is what you want.


S/V B'Shert
Amen to staying on the boat. While short tethers are a good idea, a recent analysis challenges low-stretch jack lines (and hard attachment points) as offering advantage, and makes a good case that they may do more harm than good. See parts 1 and 2 at

https://www.morganscloud.com/2015/11...t-1-corrected/
__________________
hodgmo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2015, 11:22   #12
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Anacortes
Boat: previous - Whitby 42 new - Goldenwave 44
Posts: 1,735
Re: Jacklines and fall protection devices?

A recent edition of "Practical Sailor" had a great discussion of the whats/whys/hows of jacklines - nylon webbing, SS cables, dyneema rope, etc. Not sure how you can get just that but it was excellent.

I don' think the OSHA construction tether is what you want. You want to stay on the boat. Where you put the jackline is critical in that regard. Closer to the centerline as possible and relatively short tethers and then clip on to hard points when not moving.

If you drag along side of the boat in bad weather and rough seas it is usually a death sentence unless someone notices that you went over and has the means (extremely difficult) to get you back on.
__________________
exMaggieDrum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2015, 11:23   #13
Registered User
 
deluxe68's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Arizona/Rhode Island
Boat: Swan 432
Posts: 581
Re: Jacklines and fall protection devices?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hodgmo View Post
Amen to staying on the boat. While short tethers are a good idea, a recent analysis challenges low-stretch jack lines (and hard attachment points) as offering advantage, and makes a good case that they may do more harm than good. See parts 1 and 2 at

https://www.morganscloud.com/2015/11...t-1-corrected/
You can have convenience or you can have safety it seems with jacking lines. Some people wear a two part tether and use the two foot section to crawl around when the conditions are rough. Then they use the longer section of the tether when the conditions improve.
__________________
deluxe68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2015, 11:29   #14
Guy
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: So. Oregon, USA
Boat: Seafarer36c
Posts: 4,308
Re: Jacklines and fall protection devices?

[QUOTE=thomm225;1974003]I bought a tether and a jackline a few years back then realized that if I did fall I'd be dragged along behind the boat



If I fall ovbd fwd, the tether can only get as far back as the first lower wire. So depending on the length of your tether and how much stretch the jackline has, you would only get to about the top shroud. Then if you fall in aft of the lowers, you would not be running your jackline that far aft, as to be drug behind the boat. I don't think you would ever have a tether attach point in the cockpit that would let you get very far over the stern behind the boat either.
__________________
Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2015, 11:33   #15
Registered User
 
Snore's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: www.USCGMaster.com
Boat: Tartan 33
Posts: 1,881
Re: Jacklines and fall protection devices?

You are on the right path. Fall protection is designed to arrest the person from falling to the ground. That is not relevant to a boat. Fall protection lets you call a distance (+/-4') before kicking in. On most boats that is too late.

IMHO based on a heavy safety background I went with a single jack line down the middle of the boat. It hooks to the starboard bow cleat, goes through a shackle attached to the tang on the mast that holds the vang and is tightened using the port cabin top winch. This minimizes the distance the jack line can deflect when loaded. There are also two hard points in the cockpit I can attach to.

Users wear a harness and WM two lead tethers. I prefer the WM as they use a Kong clip like most harnesses use. The action on the Kongs is smoother than the "more recognized" Wilchards. Both are double action clips- like a fall protection or confined space rig.


Sent from my iPhone- please forgive autocorrect errors.
__________________

__________________
"Whenever...it requires a strong moral principle to prevent me from deliberately stepping into the street, and methodically knocking people's hats off- then, I account it high time to get to sea..." Ismael ---- NEW website! www.USCGMaster.com
Snore is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
Jacklines, rot

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fall protection Jd1 Construction, Maintenance & Refit 21 15-03-2014 12:57
Fall Protection Equipment nikki1 Health, Safety & Related Gear 11 15-03-2014 12:46
Want To Buy: Jacklines and Tethers Cruising Couple Classifieds Archive 17 11-03-2012 21:54
Personal Fall Limiter vs Jacklines JamuJoe Health, Safety & Related Gear 13 19-11-2010 19:48
Jacklines and Tethers captain465 Health, Safety & Related Gear 2 01-07-2009 13:52



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 17:27.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.