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Old 13-09-2012, 15:59   #16
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Re: Jacklines

I've got a pad eye in the cockpit with a permanently attached tether. It's long enough that I can go below with it attached or attach it before I put a foot on the ladder to climb on deck. Seems there have been quite a few fatal MOB's because someone coming on deck is knocked overboard before they have time/remember to clip in.

The Jack Lines are attached to a pad eye about 3' aft of the stem and run down each side of the deck to the stern. I think it's more important to stay attached 'cause no one plans to go overboard, it just happens when you least expect it. Even though I have two clips on my tether, the least I have to clip/unclip, the faster and safer I will be going forward. I'd rather risk going overboard clipped on than going overboard untethered because I had to clip/unclip and forgot or was hit in the middle of doing it from a Jack Line that wouldn't allow me to go overboard but required multiple hook/unhook iterations to move about.

I prefer to go forward on the leeward side. I can lean into the boat, easily grab hold of handrails or what have you. Feel i have less chance of being thrown off the boat because I'm hanging on and lower to the deck. Going up the windward side, worry about being catapulted across the boat and being injured. This is probably a personal thing that each of us will do what feels most comfortable to us. Try it both ways and do what 'feels good' to you.
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Old 14-09-2012, 04:42   #17
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How about a pic or two showing exactly how you pros secure and run the jacklines?
What about the harness. Must be worn all the time it appears. What do you have that is comfortable etc for this?
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Old 14-09-2012, 05:02   #18
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Re: Jacklines

Yachting Monthly had an article about 2 months ago on tethers. Short resume:

They used a mannequin with foul weather clothing - total weight 65 kilos (dry). Over the side with it. The tether immediately turned the mannequin over on its stomach which resulted in the face being buried in the water. Had it been a person the person would have drowned by water being forced down its throat. It took two (2) crewmen to haul the dummy up the side to railing. They could not haul it on board. That required 3 persons.

Moral?: tethers should be so short that you cannot go over the side.
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Old 14-09-2012, 05:25   #19
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Re: Jacklines

I unfortunately had an over the side experience. I have a Lirakis harness with tethers which are about 5 feet.. not sure.

The incident occurred when I had a hank on head sail and I left the protection of the anchorage to discover a strong wind as well as some larger than expected seas. I decided to use a jib instead of the genny which was hanked on.

I went forward with the jib bag so that I could take it down and stuff it in the bag and then put on the genny. (man are roller furlers great).

I got to the bow tied the bag to the cleat. I had attached my tether (1 of them) to the slotted tow rail. Just as I finished tying the sail bag the bow dropped into a huge trough and in instant was thrown up as the next wave came and lifted the bow. The motion was enough to send me flying into the air off the deck... and when that wave passed another trough appeared and I was now pulled downward tethered to the dropping bow which I believe shipped some green water.

I did not come down on the deck but over the side. My tether was OVER the live lines just aft of the pulpit. Shiva has a fairly high freeboard and I was on the lee side when this happened so the rail was closer to the water then the windward side for sure.

The boat was making way inder engine and autopilot. My friend who is not a sailor sat in the cockpit not knowing what to do... obviously as I was being pulled through the water against the topsides more or less at the surface of the water. I was perhaps only submerged in the first instance of the bow drop.

I was able to get one leg *hooked* around a stanchion so I was no longer in the water. But I was unable to from that position to release the tether and climb in.. nor did I want to be untethered to the boat and hanging to the rail and stanchion. It was hard I recall to get to the second tether and fun it under the life lines so I could craw onto the deck under the lower live line... with the other one released and yet be still tethered. I asked my friend to bring a line and tie it to my harness passed under the lines and cleat it off and then unclip the tether. He did this, but he was not using a harness.... holding on with one hand.

I was obviously able to get aboard and lived to tell this tale.

A very short tether would require me crawling on the deck.

But a centerline tie to would have prevented what happened. This means use the side jack lines to move forward AND the second to a CL jack line or deck fitting.. and get a roller furler so you can less the time at the bow in rough seas (I did).
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Old 14-09-2012, 06:52   #20
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Re: Jacklines

congratulations on making it. easy to have gotten killed in that situation
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Old 14-09-2012, 07:07   #21
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Re: Jacklines

excuse the many typos...

You have to experience this stuff to get it... That incident was about 2 or 3 years after I got my boat. I was enthusiastic and at the bottom the steep end of the learning curve. But 25 years on I am still learning sailing and boats.
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Old 14-09-2012, 07:24   #22
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Re: Jacklines

The stern attachment for the jackline should be at least 6 feet forward of the stern--far enough forward that you cannot be towed behind the boat by your tether. You may be able to get back on board if you are towed alongside, like Defjef, but only the Hulk has the strength to pull himself back up the tether and grab the stern.
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Old 14-09-2012, 08:39   #23
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Re: Jacklines

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Originally Posted by Land an View Post
Boy am I glad I found this thread. I am a newbie and will be out alone at times. The idea of going over has been playing in my head.

Is it advisable to have two clips on the harness. The second to be used to clip on past an obstacle without having to first unclip the first clip? And I guess rule #1 is not to have obstacles along the jack line.
My 2c and personal preferences:

I've done a lot of single handed, and short handed, sailing. Whether entirely rational or not, when single handing I am much more cautions and deliberative in the way I do things. That includes clipping in. If I go over board, or get seriously injured, solo then I'm screwed. Short-handed, even with inexperienced crew, at least someone else knows there's a problem.

Re two clips (and I'm sure you will get a variety of opinions on this), I prefer using a "Y" shaped tether. Mine has a 3' leg and a 6' leg. This allows me, especially in really rough weather, to clip in to a new point before unclipping from the old. Especially useful aboard multi-hulls where the expanse of deck to cover is much larger than say a traditional offshore monohull.
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Old 14-09-2012, 08:46   #24
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Re: Jacklines

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Originally Posted by Bay Mane View Post
...
What about the harness. Must be worn all the time it appears. What do you have that is comfortable etc for this?
My preference is a Type V (auto-inflate) with a built in harness. It is compact and comfortable. Dramatic contrast, to wearing a bulky old Type I and a separate harness. The upside to the old style is there is nothing fancy to fail.
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Old 14-09-2012, 08:48   #25
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Re: Jacklines

Quote:
Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
Yachting Monthly had an article about 2 months ago on tethers. Short resume:

They used a mannequin with foul weather clothing - total weight 65 kilos (dry). Over the side with it. The tether immediately turned the mannequin over on its stomach which resulted in the face being buried in the water. Had it been a person the person would have drowned by water being forced down its throat. It took two (2) crewmen to haul the dummy up the side to railing. They could not haul it on board. That required 3 persons.

Moral?: tethers should be so short that you cannot go over the side.

And, there have in fact, be cases where peopled died this way.
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Old 14-09-2012, 09:31   #26
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Re: Jacklines

yes ,a tether can drown you sooner rather than later if you re pitched over the side. A Great lakes sailor was found drowned while still tethered to his yacht which finally ran ashore towing his body. My harness has a quick release clip that will free me from the boat if I so choose to drown later. I also trail a short line that will deploy my swim ladder but I suspect that in many cases my boat will be beyond me before I can grab this line.
I think that Bash has made a worthwhile suggestion I.E.: try out your systems from the dock before the critical test arrives.
BTW: On my boat only the high side is feasible.
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Old 14-09-2012, 13:19   #27
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Do you guys really put on the harness and tether in every time you come up from below or just when the weather starts to get interesting?
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Old 14-09-2012, 13:39   #28
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Re: Jacklines

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bay Man View Post
Do you guys really put on the harness and tether in every time you come up from below or just when the weather starts to get interesting?
Bear in mind I almost never wear a PFD, since I am nearly always either alone or with inexperienced crew. Hoping someone will come get me is rather optimistic. If I were racing or fully crewed some of the choices would change.

* No tether in the cockpit, ever. It's very deep and is a center cockpit. Other cockpits are different.
* Not generally if motoring with any crew. But often yes if I go on deck and some other factor (dark) applies.
* After dark, particularly off-shore. Good luck finding an MOB, even with a crew.
* Nasty weather. Obvious.
* If the chute is up in a good breeze, particularly if short handed or with inexperienced crew. They may not be able to get it down, tangles, etc.
* Singlehanding I put it on sooner, but not quite always. Depends on how near shore, traffic, water temp, etc.
* Always if fishing singlehanded. Some of the fish are big and dumb stuff happens. Sometimes I have to walk down the sugar scoop while still sailing. Different anchor point (holds me right at the stern rail).
* Cold water. In January a PFD won't help too much, not if singlehanding.
* Not generally if sailing in-shore with crew in fair weather. But that can change quickly.

Thus, my jacklines are permanently rigged.

Sail Delmarva: Climbing Gear for Sailors--Jacklines and Harnesses for the Unemployed

Sail Delmarva: The Case for Softer Tethers

http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/20...ack-line.html]

Sail Delmarva: Bolt Hangers--A Strong Point For Small Dollars
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Old 14-09-2012, 13:52   #29
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Re: Jacklines

Quote:
I did not come down on the deck but over the side. My tether was OVER the live lines just aft of the pulpit. Shiva has a fairly high freeboard and I was on the lee side when this happened so the rail was closer to the water then the windward side for sure.
One of the Vendee Globe sailors was thrown up like you and into the pulpit. He shattered his femur but was able to get back to the cockpit and somehow got himself below to call for help.
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Old 14-09-2012, 14:18   #30
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Re: Jacklines

When single handing I'm always clipped into my Spinlock Deck Vest. Have an ACR personal locator beacon attached to the vest so I can alert the powers that be if I need additional help. Figure in the least it will make it easier on my wife if they recover a body.

**** happens and when you least expect it. Only time I've nearly gone overboard was on a beautiful day with force 4 winds and fairly calm seas. Only reason I didn't go overboard is my wife so me go head down over the life lines and caught my feet keeping from going all the way over. My experience with MOB drills, pre GPS, is that it's nearly impossible to find someone if there is much more than a couple of feet of seas running. You just disappear in the troughs and it's so easy to get disoriented on the boat to even know where to look without a shore reference.

FWIW, really like the Spinlock vest. It's very comfortable to wear, comes with leg straps as standard equipment, and has a lot of adjustments for fit. Wore mine 24/7 from the Gate to Hilo on a Trans Pac, even slept in it.
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