is Flying the US flag safe anymore?

[BC Mike]

Please allow me to refer back to the original post about flying the US flag in other countries. My personal opinion is that I care about you as a person, and am not affected by the flag you fly. There are fine folks all over the world and I believe they are in the majority. While in NZ and England and the IOM I have met folks from many other countries, for me it makes no difference, and I think I am not alone in saying this. It is not about politics, past or present, it is about people. I have lived in four countries including the US ( legally ) the more people I meet from other countries the more my horizons are broardened.
Michael

[Pblais]

The US flag is properly flown from sunrise to sunset from a galf extended from the stern. By US custom the galf position is considered the most honered position to fly the national flag aboard ship and is considered proper to be flown dring all daylight hours. Other counties share this tradition as well when flying their own national flags on their vessles. In US waters the US Yacht Ensign is as appropriate to fly as the national flag. The US Yacht Ensign is the oldest unchanged US Flag dating back to 1848.

While it may be true that some people may resent a US flag. It might also be true that they resent any flag and don't feel bound to any courtesy or traditions. In that specific case I doubt it really matters to them if you fly a flag or not.

The flying of a national flag is not political. The flying of a courtesy flag is a sign of respect to a host. The lack of a courtesy flag is almost always taken as a a lack of respect. Neither is political but but the latter is a very poor way to introduce yourself. People that see it will form negative opinions of you before they meet you.

Flying both flags clearly shows you to be a guest that is honered to be in the host coutry. That is the real purpose of flying flags. There is no other.

[Ram]

Hellowsailor
Your right of coarse- if the sole reason for creating the corporation was just a scam, In my case , im completely legitimate - I have several corporation/LLC,s I own in my business's , I created this parent Corp that now owns the other LLC's,Im paid very little by the parent corp , and have a lot of perks provided with my "job" as manager of the other LLC's, one benefit being the boat,as my home & its expensives (simalar to if your employer provides you with a house/ motel room or car as a perk ) so I do have profit in some of my bussness & losses in others ,its perfectly legal and it works for me. As far as keeping the boat in one place , im not going to have the boat in any state long enough to be required to pay any use taxs .
I learned a long time ago not to try and cheat the tax man, he will certainly get you in the end, But I also know that we are entitled to every break we can get legally and im taking the government up on each & every one that applys to me!
Ram

[GMac]

Originally Posted by Pblais

The flying of a national flag is not political.

Sadly it isn't seen that way by many especially when it is plasted on the side of a tank sitting outside your window or doing worst things.

Most people respect most other people and I think on a straight person to person level there would be few issues. The sad part is many many people only see the US flag (and the US is not the only ones, just the loudest) on things military and usually this is not very good for local 'living' conditions.

Obviously when you only see US military doing what they do, it is very hard not to get a tad upset.

Down NZ way most regard the US government as a bunch of complete w**kers. This is over our banning of ANY vessel carry any nukes or powered by nuclear. The US took it personally and has been doing the odd dodgy thing ever since. There is also some resentment over the state sponsered terrorism in Auckland Harbour. After all the hot air coming out of Washington about terrorism did we see them step up and bomb France? or even say one word about it, no.

Does the average Kiwi blame the average US citizen about any of this, absolutly not.

Is the NZ Government a complete bunch of w**kers as well, to bloody right they are.

[Pblais]

GMac,

Your observations still lacks any correlation to the original question. In the case of boats flying flags there is nothing what so ever connected to politics. After all each us only has one flag. That would basically reduce all motivations to political ideals. I don't consider politics to be ideal.

[Brent Swain]

Chris, you'd lose , bigtime.
I would hope that most people outside the US would see over half USainans as victims and a minority as perpetrators.
The perpetrators are easy to identify, like the huge US powerbat cruising BC last summer with a US flag the size of a pickup truck hanging of her stern and another US flag where the Canadian courtest flag belongs. He got the finger approriately .Fortunately for him I didn't see him in an anchorage. He heaped a lot of undeserved baggage on his fellow USanians, like those a bit more in touch with reality.
I hear that in Costa Rica , similar type fanatics in huge power boats are heaping similar baggage on more moderate USanian cruisers and people there are becomming increasingly angry , taking it out on USanians who don't deserve it in any way.Perhaps it's time more moderate USanians started laying the blame for their problems where it belongs.
I heard of USanians in a Mexican airport were throwing coins, expecting Mexicans to scramble for them. Such totally insulting behavior heaps huge amount of baggage on USanians who definitly don't deserve it.
There is little in US dealings with other countries that deserves anything resembling pride or respect.
Most USanians that I meet ouitside the US are apologetic and embarrassed over the behavior of their country. Those who aren't deserve the flak, not the rest.
USanians going out of their way to be goodwill ambasadors can help undo a lot of the dammage , and could undo far more if the childish rednecks wouldn't keep sabotaging their efforts.

[Alan Wheeler]

I think to be fair, there are people in ALL countries that have inward looking aspects and views of the world. We have them here in NZ as well. I think the vast majority of boaters in the world tend to have a broader outlook of the world around them. And the further someone has traveled, the more they have seen and the more people they have meet, tends to exponentially broaden there view of the world around them. The boaters that have a very narrow minded view of the world tend to be a very small minority and it becomes obviouse to all others very quickly, just how sad a person they really are.

The dangers are, when you are inward looking, you focus on the issue around you. They become the storms of life, when they really are just storms in a tea cup.
Now while it is very to laugh at the poor geograhpy skills of Americans, we had a news article on TV last night, where people in the street were asked to point out on a map where Iran was. They were given four choices of A,B,C or D. Most couldn't guess it. So America is not the only country that struggles with those issues. Is it poor Geography lessons at school?? Poor teaching??, No I don't believe so. I believe it is an unwillingness of people wanting to give a damn about the world around them. I am now a Tutor, and I try and teach yopung people everyday. But mostly, it's not that I can't teach, it's that they simply don't want to know, because they don't think it directly benifits or affects them. That's really Sad.

[sluissa]

well, to tell the truth, the only geography course I ever had to take was in 9th grade and it only lasted half a year. To add to that, it was taught by a baseball coach who really didn't give a *bleep*. We basically learned the continants, the basics of reading a map, and the names of different land forms.

So part of it IS simply not being taught very well. Though I agree, alot of americans are just indifferent to the rest of the world.

[hellosailor]

Alan-
The US has always had a unique lack of world view caused by what has been called the splendid isolation of an entire continent with two ocean barriers. I've seen it with visitors who were slowly stunned at being able to drive eight hours on the hghway--without needing or showing their passports. Before the creation of the EU, where else on earth could you do that? Oz. Canada. Damn few other places, since even in the USSR you had to show internal papers. But we've been raised on one culture, one currency, one road system and "road trip" could mean 24 hours on the highway--all in one place. I'm afraid the cancerous spread of the worst of American culture (franchise foods, etc.) has made that even worse. I used to like knowing that even the highway rest stops would vary from one region to the next. Now? Can you drive more than an hour without seeing a McDonalds or Burger King or KFC anywhere in the world? Including a lot of islands that should have known better?<G>
I once asked a French border/customs guard to stamp my passport and he got terribly upset and finally went inside his shack, closed the door, pulled down the shade, and took lunch rather than simply stamping my entry! (Well, I didn't want to be shot as a spy.<G>)
Had I been older and wiser I suppose I would have understood, he probably had no inkpad and was embarassed about that, who knows. Now, I just tell the nice man I'm there to collect all the women, gold, and cattle and if he could please have them waiting for me before I leave, I can skip the pillaging and burning part.

Ram, I have no doubt situations can be legal...but just remember, if you are in many states for 30 days in a motor vehicle, you are required to register it in that state--and pay tax on it--on the 31st day. I've heard all sorts of clever ideas, but none truly legal, for keeping both a boat and person beyond reach of the tax collector, if that person is a US citizen. Since I'm not paid by the IRS, I don't dwell on it.

[alaskadog]

I returned recently from a winter cruise to Mexico, Belizie and Guatamala. I usually flew the US flag from my stern when entering a port and a courtesy flag of the country I was visiting from my starboard spreader. I always flew the courtesty flag when I was in the country but often did not fly my flag. I practically never flew my flag at anchor or at marinas because frankly when the wind was blowing I did not like to have the noise of the constant flapping and whipping when I was in the cockpit and the visual interference of a three foot long flapping piece of cloth sometimes caused me to remove it at sea during the day. Seems like most other American cruisers I saw behaved somewhat similarly. I never had any problems and I never heard of any problems encountered by other cruisers in the western Caribbean caused by their flying a US flag. As for politics, which is what this thread has in part evolved into, most cruisers at the various gatherings I attended or when socializing almost never discussed US or international political issues. There is much more political discussion in the electronic cruising world than in the real cruising world. And after meeting cruisers from Canada, Germany, the UK, France and mariners from Mexico, Belize and Guatamala I have found that international politics was almost never discussed. There was one exception and that was when American sailors discussed the issue of travelling to Cuba. Not an issue to sailors of other countries because they are free to travel there. Most politically related discussions by sailors centered on the effect on sailing of the political atmosphere in the host Central American country. I never saw any animosity directed at me because I was an American. I got the overall impression that America was generally liked and respected and that American dollars were wanted and needed and that a growing tourism industry in the areas I visited was greatly welcomed. The issue in American politics that was most discussed and of the greatest issue to Central Americans is US immigration policy and the effect positively and negatively to Central America of the large migration to the USA. I had several discussions with Belizeans and Guatamalans regarding their desire to have easier opportunity to work in the USA. And suprisingly for me, I met several people from those countries who had worked in the US and had returned home for family reasons or because they just wanted to go back home but overall had good feelings about the US and the abundant opportunities for work.

[GMac]

Originally Posted by Pblais

GMac,

Your observations still lacks any correlation to the original question. In the case of boats flying flags there is nothing what so ever connected to politics. After all each us only has one flag. That would basically reduce all motivations to political ideals. I don't consider politics to be ideal.

While that might be true would you stand in downtown Bagdad holding up a big US flag??

The bloke behind the wall with the machine gun would not know who you are personally but he would recognise the flag. Are you sure he would not pull the trigger? I suspect he very well might based on the flag alone.

The question was, Is flying the US flag safe anymore. In certain parts of the world I would think the obvious answer is No.

[alaskadog]

Hey Gmac,
The question had to do with flying a flag on your boat. Not flying the flag in downtown Baghdad, or from the top of the Eiffel Tower. Hell, a loonie Kiwi would probably shoot you if you flew the USA flag above the New Zealand flag in downtown Auckland (that is, if there are any Kiwis with guns). Your posts have always been quite sensible and informed when you discuss anchoring and rigging, etc. Your ranting on this subject leaves alot to be desired and is offensive to some.

[Pblais]

This thread has been hijacked Joe. Get out while you still can. I'm sure it will die in it's own good time. The topic was lost a long ways back about on number 2 or 3.

[GMac]

Originally Posted by Ram

I just bought a new boat and am wondering how safe it is to be documented in the USA, with so much animosity toward the USA in the world today . Im wondering if I fly the US flag what kind of target will I become? I will be sailing the Med & N. & W. Africa . the next 2 years then back home to Florida for a breif stay & off again. Whats your opinion?
Ram

That is the orginal post.

Can I introduce some people to the words - example and delicate.

[Michaele]

I really do not think there is any danger in flying the US or British ensigns in the Med except perhaps Algeria and Libya... Tunisia and Morocco are fine as is everywhere else... I confess I struck my UK colours when sailing in the Red Sea (after the pirate attack) as there was so much anti American and British feeling in the area and it only takes one extremist with a AK47 to spoil your day. Rest of Europe is of course fine - we love our American friends/cousins/partners/
Michael