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Old 18-03-2006, 18:58   #31
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Re: Weapons

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Borden once whispered in the wind:
Reading this thread and residing in a country where gun carrying is illegal (the UK) I'm surprised at how prepared some folks seem to be to carry arms and kill.
Remember, these people are just saying "I know there are bad guys who may attack me with deadly force, and I must be prepared to defend against that."

Your position on gun ownership will reflect your own estimate of your chances of being in that situation. If you live in the UK, you probably think the chance is pretty small. That reflects the relative safety of your society. I live in a densely populated region of the US and I think the chance is small enough that having a gun is more dangerous than not having one.

Each of us would have a totally different view if we lived in Somalia or Afghanistan.

Once you decide you may need a gun, the only responsible thing to do is to consider what might happen if you have to use it. i.e. Mentally prepare yourself for the possibility that you may need to kill someone. This also includes having self control to use the gun only when you have no alternative.

Relating to cruising: I read that on Spitzbergen Island, you are not permitted to leave the boat without a shotgun. The authorities don't want you to be the next person killed by a bear.

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Just to finish off on the issue of the VP of the USA having to go hunting. Are there no food shops in Washington?
It wasn't in Washington - it was in Texas., but I think they have food stores there too.

I saw a tv program that described in general terms what he was doing. There are farms that specialize in putting out birds for you to hunt. You order a certain number of each type of bird that you want to shoot, and they get that many birds from the barn and hide them in the bushes. Then you walk through the bushes and shoot the birds.

I think they call it "hunting" and "for sport". It doesn't appeal to me.
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Old 11-12-2006, 12:14   #32
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Originally Posted by S/V Aphrodite
Does anyone have any experience with improvised defensive weapons?

I'm willing to put up with the hassle of carrying a shotgun on board since that's likely to be viewed as defensive, but should I ever have to repel boarders I'd like something more formidable.

Cheers,

Carl
Buy a 12 guage double barrel shotgun and saw off the barrel to 18" then the handle for a pistol grip. Paint it orange then in black paint write " flare gun" keep flares in it while going through customs. hide the real things until nighttime. works all over the world.
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Old 11-12-2006, 12:41   #33
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"Relating to cruising: I read that on Spitzbergen Island, you are not permitted to leave the boat without a shotgun. The authorities don't want you to be the next person killed by a bear."
And in Alaska, pilots are required to keep arms in the aircraft survival gear for the same reason, in case they go down and the local wildlife feels like having a fresh snack. Made for some interesting conflicts for those pilots who flew "next door" to Canada when Canada decided no one should be carrying guns. Effectively, for a while, flying from Alaska to Canada was simply not legally possible.
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Old 11-12-2006, 13:35   #34
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In Canada you are allowed hunting rifles, just not hand guns w/o a permit.

http://panda.com/canadaguns/
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Old 11-12-2006, 14:05   #35
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The worst thing about guns in untrained hands is that it provokes increased aggression from the baddies, and unwarranted sense of invulnerability to the person holding the gun.
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Old 11-12-2006, 14:17   #36
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"In Canada you are allowed"
With panda and at least one other site offline it is hard to comment just now, but let's say "you" as a tourist and "you" as a Canadian are different things. And even as a Canadian, "you" will still be discussing registration which was previously not needed, and prohibitions that previously didn't exist.
IOW, it ain't quite that simple.
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Old 11-12-2006, 16:08   #37
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Do sailors in Plastic boats believe that a credible perimeter defence is possible? Just what do you use to keep your head down while the bad guys are plugging away at you?

Rick in Florida
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Old 11-12-2006, 16:53   #38
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I think it's already over if the "bad guys" are shooting at your plastic boat. No question. I think the idea of defending yourself is more a question of someone coming down the companionway or into hatches. If they are armed, it's going to be bad no matter how it plays out. Might as well at least *try* to defend yourself. (USA only here, not suggesting doing this in countries where weapons are banned)

A shotgun aimed at someone coming down the companionway would do wonders to deter them. My personal thought is to use a non-lethal as the first round, and proceed to the 2nd round if the person were armed and able to get up from the 1st round. Although, using a bean bag shell on them in a boat's cockpit should render them pretty useless for a while until you could call the authorities and subdue them.

If you have ever fired a 12 gauge shotgun, you'll know there really isn't anything more formidable for defending an area (speaking to the original poster's question). Even the police use them as weapons of choice for crowd control, breaking open locked doors and for defending against situations where a pistol just isn't going to cut it.

As you can tell, that's what I carry now.
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Old 11-12-2006, 17:47   #39
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Originally Posted by rickm505
Do sailors in Plastic boats believe that a credible perimeter defence is possible? Just what do you use to keep your head down while the bad guys are plugging away at you?
Some years ago, I was on a mailing list with a guy who needed to cut a piece of fiberglass out of his boat. After that, he decided it would be fun to shoot it to see what would happen. All I remember about the gun is that he considered it to be at the upper end of the penetrating power you would expect from a handgun. He was rather pleased that the fiberglass stopped the bullets with only minor surface damage.

When the debate on the list turned to steel vs fiberglass, he always brought up his test results. Of course, he was interested in the point-impact strength, and the pro-steel faction was mostly interested in what happens when your boat is up on a reef for a couple hours.

Of course, he was using standard bullets in a standard gun. If you are being attacked with anti-tank weapons, a steel boat will be penetrated too.
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Old 11-12-2006, 17:52   #40
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Coot, Upon reflection, I'd rather not shoot my boat to see if it will stop a bullet, I will bow to your experience.

Rick in florida
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Old 12-12-2006, 01:04   #41
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A smart person is not confrentational,A smart person gets even.If ya gonna go someplace evil,think evil.Take along some fancey looking equipment(all broken and usless of course)wired up inside with plastic or some other boom boom of your choice,with remote detination,leave it in the saloon alongside of $200 of local money in a bag maybe with a few fancey (broken) whatches.Hide the remote well(This is importent)Let them come aboard,smile wave,give em a beer.They will think they have hit the jackpot,do their thing then leave.And dont forget to wave as they do.When their off a ways get the remote and still waving press the red button and send them to Davey Jones' locker.Mudnut.<G>
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Old 12-12-2006, 02:57   #42
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Mudnut: "... A smart person gets even ..."
Perhaps, a smarter person, being non-confrontational, would have nothing to get even for.
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Old 12-12-2006, 08:30   #43
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You should just use an m-4 carbine with an m-203 grenade launcher. I have used this before and it works great!
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Old 12-12-2006, 09:06   #44
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Coot, I've even seen a piece of 1/16" styrene plastic literally turn a military .308 rifle bullet sideways, at six feet from the muzzle. That doesn't mean the bullet didn't go through the plastic <G> just that when you are close to the muzzle, the bullet is not yet stabilized in flight, and it is easy to deflect. ("Keyholing".)

I suppose embedding a Claymore in the companionway step is probably against ORC equipment rules, huh? <VBG>

"Yeah buys, just glass it right in, that's the new, ah, compass deviation ballast."
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Old 12-12-2006, 10:10   #45
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If you're really interested in piracy at sea, go to a primary source. I encourage to search the piracy database at International Maritime Organization

click on "safety", then on "piracy against ships." Don't look at the quarterly reports because without the details they are misleading.

The first thing you notice is that there are VERY FEW attacks against private yachts. The second thing you notice is that EVEN FEWER result in any harm to the crew. In fact, it very debateable in many cases that an act of piracy actually occurred. One example: a yacht off Phuket, Thailand that was allegedly hijacked by pirates ranks as one of three "attacks" on pleasure vessels all of this year (so far) in SE Asia. The boat was taken from its mooring. There were no witnesses. It was later found drifting nearby. Now, why would pirates hijack a boat from its mooring and then abandon it (there's no evidence of pursuit by coasties)? One thinks the boat snapped its mooring and the master (perhaps a local paid to watch over a foreigner's boat) was too embarrased to admit it - so he/she reported it as piracy.

By the way, the other two "attacks" in Southeast Asia this year seem on close inspection to be cases of local authorities trying to extort some money from yachties without proper cruising permits. That's a pisser, but it ain't piracy.

Part II of a series I'm working on about piracy in southeast asia is finished and being edited. I think it could be pretty informative, but I can't post it until it's published.

Meanwhile, you can find part I here:

Andaman Sea Pilot - the definitive cruising guide for the Andaman Sea...and more
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