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Old 06-01-2016, 15:35   #166
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Re: Importance of Life-raft when coastal cruising?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mariner36bob View Post
Post #103 is genius.
I'm putting a kite in my ditch bag.....which will be thrown in the life raft :-)
Or, you could just put a PLB in the ditch bag and plan on not being in the life raft for more than a few hours now that's novel.
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Old 06-01-2016, 16:13   #167
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Re: Importance of Life-raft when coastal cruising?

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Originally Posted by Chuck Hawley View Post


Uh, I don't think so. According to the latest Coast Guard compilation of boating statistics, approximately 92% of the boating fatalities in 2014 were in inland waters, and 8% were on the Great Lakes, Oceans, and Gulf of Mexico. There were slightly over 600 fatalities in 2014, so that would be about 50 ocean/GL fatalities from all causes of death.

Drowning is the cause of death in about 70% of all fatalities, so there would be about 35 drowning deaths in the oceans, Great Lakes, and Gulf.

Every life is important, but you have to get your facts straight.

Chuck Hawley
Right out of the USCG 2014 Excutive Summary:

n 2014, the Coast Guard counted 4,064 accidents that involved 610 deaths, 2,678
injuries and approximately $39 million dollars of damage to property as a result of
recreational boating accidents.

The fatality rate was 5.2 deaths per 100,000 registered recreational vessels.
This rate represents a 10.6% increase
from last yearís fatality rate of 4.7
deaths per 100,000 registered recreational vessels.

Compared to 2013, the number of acci
dents increased 0.05%, the number of
deaths increased 8.9%, and the number of injuries increased 2.2%.

Where cause of death was known, 78% of fata
l boating accident victims drowned. Of
those drowning victims with reported life jack
et usage, 84% were not wearing a life
jacket

If my math is correct, that's 475 boating related drownings. But I am not going to get into what the numbers or percentages are, they're out there.



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Old 06-01-2016, 16:26   #168
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Re: Importance of Life-raft when coastal cruising?

Stats are interesting in trying to assess risk... but the bottom line is you don't need a life raft unless you need one. When the terrifying moment comes when you need a life raft would you rather have one or not?


S/V B'Shert
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Old 06-01-2016, 17:07   #169
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Re: Importance of Life-raft when coastal cruising?

There was a time in the UK that more people drowned in their cars than in boats, may still be true?, driving off a quay wall, ferry ramp when no ferry present, simple crash into a river, floods etc.
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Old 06-01-2016, 23:34   #170
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Re: Importance of Life-raft when coastal cruising?

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Originally Posted by Tayana42 View Post
Stats are interesting in trying to assess risk... but the bottom line is you don't need a life raft unless you need one. When the terrifying moment comes when you need a life raft would you rather have one or not?


S/V B'Shert
i think that's true. I'm a little surprised by the amount of people who claim you don't need a life raft at all, or that a tender replaces a life raft.
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Old 07-01-2016, 09:43   #171
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Re: Importance of Life-raft when coastal cruising?

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
i think that's true. I'm a little surprised by the amount of people who claim you don't need a life raft at all, or that a tender replaces a life raft.
In our case a 10ft RIB carried on davits on the stern doubles as our liferaft for coastal cruising in warm waters. If we were ocean crossing or venturing into arctic waters it would be different and we would buy a liferaft. When we lived in Europe we always carried a cannister liferaft, it was a requirement for racing offshore. However now we live in the USA the prices are stupidly high and then the servicing costs the same yet again. WE now only cruise locally from Florida and the RIB will be fine for any likely eventuality. We will not set out in a 'perfect storm' and realistically the most likely cause for needing to abandon would be fire on board, or catastrophic holing after a collision. Our RIB may even have it's motor fitted and has some 50 miles range, enough to get us to dry land, but it also crries our grab bag with 2 VHF radios and spare batteries, plus our smartphones with nav programs and GPS preloaded.

this is a subject thst will have different resolutions for different folks and circumstances, there is no one catchall answer.
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Old 07-01-2016, 10:01   #172
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Re: Importance of Life-raft when coastal cruising?

You could need a liferaft on your small local lake. Anytime it's too cold or far to swim. It's decision someone has to make on their own. If you are daysailing coastal, and don't go out in poor weather not much risk. Can you use your dingy? etc.
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Old 07-01-2016, 13:52   #173
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Re: Importance of Life-raft when coastal cruising?

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Originally Posted by Robin3 View Post
In our case a 10ft RIB carried on davits on the stern doubles as our liferaft for coastal cruising in warm waters. If we were ocean crossing or venturing into arctic waters it would be different and we would buy a liferaft. When we lived in Europe we always carried a cannister liferaft, it was a requirement for racing offshore. However now we live in the USA the prices are stupidly high and then the servicing costs the same yet again. WE now only cruise locally from Florida and the RIB will be fine for any likely eventuality. We will not set out in a 'perfect storm' and realistically the most likely cause for needing to abandon would be fire on board, or catastrophic holing after a collision. Our RIB may even have it's motor fitted and has some 50 miles range, enough to get us to dry land, but it also crries our grab bag with 2 VHF radios and spare batteries, plus our smartphones with nav programs and GPS preloaded.

this is a subject thst will have different resolutions for different folks and circumstances, there is no one catchall answer.
yes, that's pretty much the census on this thread about it.
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Old 07-01-2016, 16:43   #174
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Re: Importance of Life-raft when coastal cruising?

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
yes, that's pretty much the census on this thread about it.

we live overlooking the ICW in Daytona Beach Florida and watch dozens of boats passing daily, many also anchoring overnight in the passage anchorage we overlook. A very high percentage of boats passing by are towing their tenders ( something I do not like to do myself for any distance). I cannot tell if they also have liferafts available but I suspect that most do not.

I said in an earlier reply that liferaft prices in the USA are very much higher than when we were back in Europe, both for initial purchase and for subsequent servicing. I suspect this is either the lack of competition, or the fear of law suits for any failures resulting in loss of life or a combination of both, but unless this issue of costs is addressed I suspect many will look towards cheaper options. Personally I would never abandon my big/solid boat for a liferaft (aka kids paddling pool) unless stepping up to it or with flames licking my butt. In nearly 60 years of cruising and well over 100,000 miles I have never needed to deploy a liferaft nor a tender as an escape pod. I was at sea sailing with family ( but not racing) in the area of the notorious 1979 Fastnet storm and naturally followed the rescues and sad events very closely. Many drowned who took to their liferafts in the horrendous conditions whilst their boats still remained afloat days later, that fact alone has probably influenced my thinking more than a little over the years, to take all sensible precautions to avoid disaster, cruising 'aware' and avoiding excessive risk where possible. You cannot actually BUY safety, the truth is that it is a state of mind and one needing constant updating ! .
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Old 07-01-2016, 17:41   #175
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Re: Importance of Life-raft when coastal cruising?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin3 View Post
I was at sea sailing with family ( but not racing) in the area of the notorious 1979 Fastnet storm and naturally followed the rescues and sad events very closely. Many drowned who took to their liferafts in the horrendous conditions whilst their boats still remained afloat days later, that fact alone has probably influenced my thinking more than a little over the years... ! .
I certainly agree. In the US Safety at Sea training, we emphasize that there are very few instances that justify abandoning a vessel into a life raft. The first, obviously, is when the vessel is sinking and efforts to stem the flow of water have failed. You should make sure, by the way, that the vessel actually sinks; some are remarkably buoyant (multis, monos without keels). The second is when you have a fire that you cannot extinguish. The third is when the raft can be used to get you out of a situation more safely than sticking around (away from reef, towards a rescue swimmer and helo, etc.)

One reason that rafts can be more expensive in the U.S. is that they are mandated in many European countries, and are made (or used to be made) to a pretty minimal specification. In the U.S., rafts are optional unless you're an ocean racer, and they tend to be higher-spec and more creative. Look at a Winslow or a Switlik or a Viking raft in the U.S. market and you'll see that they are dramatically different than the compulsory rafts in other countries.

Cheers,

Chuck Hawley
"Having lost a keel at sea, I am sensitive to this issue!"
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Old 07-01-2016, 17:44   #176
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Re: Importance of Life-raft when coastal cruising?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASTBoone View Post
Right out of the USCG 2014 Excutive Summary:

n 2014, the Coast Guard counted 4,064 accidents that involved 610 deaths, 2,678
injuries and approximately $39 million dollars of damage to property as a result of
recreational boating accidents.

The fatality rate was 5.2 deaths per 100,000 registered recreational vessels.
This rate represents a 10.6% increase
from last yearís fatality rate of 4.7
deaths per 100,000 registered recreational vessels.

Compared to 2013, the number of acci
dents increased 0.05%, the number of
deaths increased 8.9%, and the number of injuries increased 2.2%.

Where cause of death was known, 78% of fata
l boating accident victims drowned. Of
those drowning victims with reported life jack
et usage, 84% were not wearing a life
jacket

If my math is correct, that's 475 boating related drownings. But I am not going to get into what the numbers or percentages are, they're out there.



Yep, but that wasn't what I was refuting. The claim was made about coastal boaters, not all boaters. 92% of the boating fatalities, from all causes of death, are NOT in coastal or ocean waters.

Chuck
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Old 07-01-2016, 18:16   #177
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Re: Importance of Life-raft when coastal cruising?

I think that having a liferaft for coastal cruising is a good idea. I have one. My ability to swim more than 1/2 mile in cold water is questionable and since I am almost always a mile or more from shore I would not likely survive. I also am responsible for others aboard the boat. I am not comfortable gambling with other peoples fate.
The argument that the the percentage of people who drown in coastal waters being small is, in my opinion, quite silly if not an irresponsible position to defend. Even if the percentage of people who drown but could have been saved by a liferaft is only .5%, those people are 100% dead.
Odds are that I will never use my Viking 4-man Offshore liferaft but I am glad that I have it.
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Old 07-01-2016, 18:23   #178
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Re: Importance of Life-raft when coastal cruising?

Terra Nova carries a raft just forward of the house.

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Old 07-01-2016, 18:50   #179
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Re: Importance of Life-raft when coastal cruising?

ITZAYANA, Raft forward of dodger
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Old 07-01-2016, 22:57   #180
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Re: Importance of Life-raft when coastal cruising?

we carry a 6 man ocean going raft. expensive solution, but while I can choose to gamble with my own life - as a responsible skipper I won't gamble with my crew or passengers.

CArry a raft or not? A decision each skipper needs to make on his own, but he(she should be cognizant of the fact that it is not only their own lives on the line

as someone said further up - a raft is a PITA and expensive - until your boat is going down and you need one.

Here's Capri with a 6 man mounted on the aft rail - turn a handle, the cage flips down and she launches herself
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