Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 14-03-2013, 14:05   #121
Marine Service Provider
 
boatpoker's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 2,593
Re: Illegally Discharging Waste in FL

Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
For those who are inclined to read for themselves, details from both the EPA and the Coast Guard here Marine Sanitation Devices | Vessel Water Discharge | US EPA and here USCG Systems Engineering Division (CG-ENG-3) .

Basically, if you have a type 1 or 2 MSD then you can discharge anywhere EXCEPT in a designated NDZ. If you have a type 3 MSD then you can only discharge when beyond 3 miles.

Not a word, in any of the regulations, about "going" directly over the side, or while in the water.

Whether it goes over the side, through the bottom, over the bow or over the boom, I think it could still reasonably be called a "discharge"
__________________

__________________
That hysterical laughter you hear as you sail a way in your "new" boat ..... is the seller.
boatpoker is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 14-03-2013, 15:25   #122
Registered User
 
ElGatoGordo's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Kemah, TX
Boat: Jim Michalak designed 25' Caprice and Self Design 32' Shantymaran
Posts: 711
Re: Illegally Discharging Waste in FL

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
Whether it goes over the side, through the bottom, over the bow or over the boom, I think it could still reasonably be called a "discharge"
I think the difference people usually allude to is that these regs revolve around MSDs and their use. Since the discharge of waste from a "holding tank" (type 3 MSD) is what's discussed in these regs, it's assumed that the "peeing overboard" bypasses the rule since it is never placed into an MSD.

Take it for what it's worth: I don't know anyone who wouldn't pee over the side if they were out of sight of others, and this thread is about discharging a holding tank in a marina...which is just HORRID!
__________________

__________________
------------------
Gordo
ElGatoGordo is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 14-03-2013, 15:52   #123
Sponsoring Vendor
 
Tellie's Avatar

Community Sponsor

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hollywood, Fl.
Boat: FP Athena 38' Poerava
Posts: 3,046
Re: Illegally Discharging Waste in FL

Sometime I wish there were Y valves attached to peoples back. That way when they're full I could just walk behind them, turn it in the right direction and let them start all over.
Tellie is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 14-03-2013, 15:57   #124
Registered User
 
Ryan H's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Massachusetts
Boat: Grampian 26, Mercury 15, Formosa 41
Posts: 265
Images: 3
Re: Illegally Discharging Waste in FL

I'm sure a good lawyer could argue a case either for or against 'reasonable' discharge whether over the rail (although indecent exposure is usually a bigger deal) or 'pump out under extraneous circumstances' nice title for it huh?

Either way, I think most all of us can get behind the general idea that as a society, we're doing a poor job of taking care of our oceans, regardless what percent we as boaters contribute to the problem.

That said, I personally feel there would be more honesty in the overboard discharge of treated waste than using a restroom on land and pretending you aren't part of the problem. Just because its the town that's flushing our poo into the ocean doesn't make it any less our poo. The defensive stance against that is that townships are supposed to properly treat the waste before discharge, which I suppose is a valid argument, although In my opinion its still not a responsible.

In a perfect world, every boat would treat their waste at or above a minimum standard and be able to discharge anywhere outside of a congested harbor. We would authorize the funding of technologically cleaner, more advanced sanitation in every town and city, Agricultural products would be engineered with runoff in mind and local waters would be regularly tested and reports given where the public could have access to them.

Oh wait, supposedly we do all but the first one in the usa. When exactly are we going to start doing the things we say we're doing?

For my part, when anchored inland or at my winter marina I use a portapoty and empty it on land because that's the law, I don't have any illusions that what I'm doing is any better than a direct discharge, it just goes to someone elses part of the ocean. I'd love to get a waste treatment system, if there was any point.
__________________
Ryan H is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 14-03-2013, 15:59   #125
Registered User
 
svHyLyte's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tampa Bay area, USA
Boat: Beneteau First 42
Posts: 3,434
Images: 25
Re: Illegally Discharging Waste in FL

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElGatoGordo View Post
I think the difference people usually allude to is that these regs revolve around MSDs and their use. Since the discharge of waste from a "holding tank" (type 3 MSD) is what's discussed in these regs, it's assumed that the "peeing overboard" bypasses the rule since it is never placed into an MSD.

Take it for what it's worth: I don't know anyone who wouldn't pee over the side if they were out of sight of others, and this thread is about discharging a holding tank in a marina...which is just HORRID!
FWIW, the primary health concern has to do with coliform bacteria of which there is none in urine. To some extent, urine is 'sterile", to the degree that the person discharging same is not afflicted with a bladder or urinary tract infection or certain other diseases. Interestingly, one of the unpleasant by product effects of urine discharge in waters arises from the extent to which the person is using certain drugs and/or medications. It has been found, for example, that when fish are exposed to water wherein waste discharges contain anti-depressants, the fish become much more bold and less likely to respond to danger warnings/threats. With this, they become easy pray for preditors. Similarly, certain hormon treatments are filtered from the bloodstream by one's kidneys and the material discharged in the urine. Even small concentrations can had adverse on the fauna (imagine Jaws on Steroids).

Actually, IMHO this discourse has gone on quite long enough. It would seem simple common sense and common courtesy not to befould the waters with anything an leave it at that, Non?
__________________
"It is not so much for its beauty that the Sea makes a claim upon men's hearts, as for that subtle something, that quality of air, that emanation from the waves, that so wonderfully renews a weary spirit."
svHyLyte is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 14-03-2013, 16:12   #126
Registered User
 
ElGatoGordo's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Kemah, TX
Boat: Jim Michalak designed 25' Caprice and Self Design 32' Shantymaran
Posts: 711
But again I'll point out that the OP was talking about a sailing school openly pumping a tank INSIDE a Marina. All discussion of urine being sterile (it is, usually), 3 mile limits, and city slicker waste are pointless.
__________________
------------------
Gordo
ElGatoGordo is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 14-03-2013, 16:26   #127
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,326
Re: Illegally Discharging Waste in FL

Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
Not a word, in any of the regulations, about "going" directly over the side, or while in the water.
And once again it will be pointed out that those are BOAT regulations. Which doesn't mean it is Ok or not against some other law.

It would be like saying is is illegal to pee on the sidewalk, but that auto rule don't have anything about it, so that makes it OK to pee on the sidewalk from inside your car.

But you appear pretty firm that it is OK to pee etc into the water from the boat, so what is the point as you are more interested in playing the word game loop hole approach than following any intent of the rules.
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 14-03-2013, 19:51   #128
Registered User
 
ElGatoGordo's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Kemah, TX
Boat: Jim Michalak designed 25' Caprice and Self Design 32' Shantymaran
Posts: 711
Re: Illegally Discharging Waste in FL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don L View Post
... so that makes it OK to pee on the sidewalk from inside your car.
Ummmm it's NOT?
__________________
------------------
Gordo
ElGatoGordo is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 15-03-2013, 07:10   #129
Registered User
 
denverd0n's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 3,953
Images: 6
Re: Illegally Discharging Waste in FL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don L View Post
...so what is the point as you are more interested in playing the word game loop hole approach than following any intent of the rules.
And yet once again, you seem to be trying to deliberately miss the point.

For the umpteenth time now, my point is that it is an indication of how utterly absurd the federal marine sanitation laws are. They should regulate, in a rational manner, the various ways that waste gets into the water, but they don't. They prohibit you from peeing into a cup and dumping that into the water, but they make it perfectly legal to pee directly into the water--apparently hoping that some other entity will take up that particular issue. It makes no sense at all, and as such is a perfect example of laws that SEEM to be regulating something, but in reality leave loopholes that you could drive a battleship through, and as a result often end up being counter-productive.

And that includes municipalities dumping their waste into the oceans. Yes, there is a presumption that they treat the waste first. And most of the time they do. Except when they don't.

You see, every municipal system out there has some provision for dumping untreated waste when they are overwhelmed. In Florida, for example, that can happen when a hurricane or tropical storm drops a couple feet of rain in a matter of days. Then, to prevent everything just overflowing, the cities open up the pipes and dump untreated sewage. And this, too, is perfectly legal. Millions of gallons directly into the water, that's okay when the city does it, but an ounce from a boat and you'll get fines that would bankrupt you.

It makes no sense. That we tolerate these kinds of idiotic laws is a poor reflection on us, as an electorate.
__________________
denverd0n is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 15-03-2013, 08:38   #130
Registered User
 
GeoPowers's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Gulfport, MS
Boat: Beneteau 393
Posts: 947
Images: 27
Re: Illegally Discharging Waste in FL

Boaters in general and especially cruisers often talk about striving to be free of burdonsome and unnecessary regulations. Threads like this just shoot ourselves in the foot.

If we really want to limit the amount of regulations and government oversight we are subjected to, then we need to do a better job at policing ourselves and setting high standards for others to follow.

This means ensuring we follow current regulations. It means treating people, property, and the environment with respect, and it means educating and pressuring fellow boaters to follow suit.

(off my soapbox)

Frank
GeoPowers is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 15-03-2013, 14:13   #131
Registered User
 
Group9's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,599
Images: 7
Re: Illegally Discharging Waste in FL

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElGatoGordo View Post
But again I'll point out that the OP was talking about a sailing school openly pumping a tank INSIDE a Marina. All discussion of urine being sterile (it is, usually), 3 mile limits, and city slicker waste are pointless.
Yeah, the original point of the post was a pretty disgusting policy by anybody. Most guys have peed in their front yard, coming home late at night, with a full bladder. I don't know any who have crapped there, though.
__________________
Group9 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 15-03-2013, 17:17   #132
Senior Cruiser
 
bstreep's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: San Antonio, TX/Port Aransas, TX
Boat: 1990 Macintosh 47, "Merlin"
Posts: 2,274
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElGatoGordo View Post
But again I'll point out that the OP was talking about a sailing school openly pumping a tank INSIDE a Marina. All discussion of urine being sterile (it is, usually), 3 mile limits, and city slicker waste are pointless.
Um. I'd like to point out the the regs for discharge for Florida is NINE MILES. Not 3.
__________________
Bill Streep
San Antonio/Port Aransas, TX
bstreep is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 15-03-2013, 17:23   #133
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 449
Re: Illegally Discharging Waste in FL

Quote:
Originally Posted by bstreep View Post
Um. I'd like to point out the the regs for discharge for Florida is NINE MILES. Not 3.
And I thought I got it straight between 3 and 12 miles, now you add to my confusion 9 miles ... 6 miles anyone?

Going once, going twice ...
__________________
Richard_W is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 15-03-2013, 17:26   #134
Registered User
 
Jimbo485's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Location: some ocean down under
Boat: Kelsall Suncat 40
Posts: 1,247
http://m.youtube.com/index?&desktop_...?v=bAZkatCmKNw

Video is better than more text......!
__________________

Jimbo485 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 15-03-2013, 19:51   #135
Registered User
 
ElGatoGordo's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Kemah, TX
Boat: Jim Michalak designed 25' Caprice and Self Design 32' Shantymaran
Posts: 711
Re: Illegally Discharging Waste in FL

Quote:
Originally Posted by bstreep View Post
Um. I'd like to point out the the regs for discharge for Florida is NINE MILES. Not 3.
And that has to do with a Sailing school dumping in the marina how?

I wish the OP would name the school personaly...so that they are either shamed or prosecuted...or defend themselves if they are innocent.
__________________

__________________
------------------
Gordo
ElGatoGordo is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:16.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.