Illegally Discharging Waste in FL

[ElGatoGordo]

Originally Posted by foggysail

I copied your entire post. It still looks to me as a suggestion to be submissive

Maybe you could highlight the "submissive"parts? I don't see any

[wsmurdoch]

Originally Posted by Richard_W

And I thought I got it straight between 3 and 12 miles, now you add to my confusion 9 miles ... 6 miles anyone

A brochure at:

http://reefrelief.org/pdf/NoDischargeBrch.pdf

references the three and six mile limits for the no discharge zones in the Florida Keys. It also shows the larger limits of the National Marine Sanctuary Preservation Areas where no untreated sewerage may be discharged. And, for the original poster it gives the phone number to report illegal dumping.

[Steve W]

I was checked for the first time in 16 years by the Florida Marine Patrol on the St. Johns River while anchored out this weekend. They were checking MSD's, asked if I was a liveaboard (no) and then my home marina. Asked if I had my Y-valve locked and how it was locked. I use zip ties on the Y-valve and the overboard discharge thru-hulls, which they said was fine. They took my word for it, never came aboard and were very professional and friendly. They put several fenders out and asked if they could come alongside. I had seen them checking other boats for years, so I guess Saturday was my turn. I'm glad I met them and appreciate the job they do.

[Dulcesuenos]

I thought it had to be an actual lock, not zip ties?

[H Romberg]

There's an extra dimension to this issue that I'd like to see get more attention. Boat holding tanks, unless they're in a tiny tiny harbor with no current, are a molecule in the pollution bucket.

Even if everyone who has a boat lived aboard and always pumped straight to sea, there'd still be almost no real change to the levels of nitrates, turbidity, etc. The main sources for poop in the water are critters that live there. Pee too. Then there are the hordes of people and critters living near the water that flush their poop and lawn fertilizer into it.

A handful of folks pumping the occasional poo-nugget into the water ain't gonna kill the environment. That's happening because of stuff on land. Stuff that's way harder for politicians to attack than a bunch of folks on boats.

That said, if you poop in inland waters, shame on you. I don't want to swim past your corn speckled harbor trout any more than you want to swim past one from me. What I do want is for people to be more aware of what they flush into our waterways every time it rains on their lawn.

[hellosailor]

"I thought it had to be an actual lock, not zip ties? "

That total misapprehension was never correct. Some over-zealous GungHo's did misinterpret the law that way years ago, but I think it was as far back as the mid90s (?) that the USCG got a new Commandant who told everyone to back it down a notch and follow the letter of the law, which only calls for "securing" the discharge. A zip tie, baling wire, or even paper-mache wrapped over the handle all count as "secured". If you have an electric head, simply removing the fuse and stowing it is "secured". Locking the head compartment door also counts as "secured", as long as you keep the key on a string around your neck along with the nuclear launch codes.

[Blue Crab]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

...Locking the head compartment door also counts as "secured", as long as you keep the key on a string around your neck along with the nuclear launch codes.

Oh no, this is how fads start.

In my case, however, the head would have to have a door. Maybe I'll try the papier-mache in CG colors.

[Richard_W]

From the horse's mouth ...

Y valve. Type III MSDs having a through hull Y valve must only be opened when the vessel is offshore, beyond the limit of U.S. territorial waters. At all other times, the valve must be positively secured in a way that presents a physical barrier to valve use and prevents all discharges. Adequate means include the use of padlock, non-releasable wire-tie, or removal of the valve handle. For more information see 33 CFR 159.7.

Source: USCG Systems Engineering Division (CG-ENG-3)

[markpierce]

My boat has a type III toilet but has no Y valve. All toilet discharge is piped to a holding tank. There is a regular valve at the bottom of the holding tank (not accessible from the head) which will empty the contents into the water. So, no Y valve, no lock?

[hellosailor]

Mark, I'd still lock down the discharge valve. While it may not be required, it logically should be, since leaving it open would after all result in a direct discharge.

And having it locked down will pretty much instantly mollify anyone who is looking for problems, cheap way to avoid arguments.

Epoxy a little piece of wood to the hull, screw in an eyebolt, tie the valve handle down...anything simple like that. No, wait, this is a job for one of those new 3D printers.<G>

[Richard_W]

Originally Posted by markpierce

So, no Y valve, no lock?

Yeah ... you wish ...

Either you have to assume it has a (virtual) Y-valve, or your device is not complaint with type 3 requirements ... ... choose your poison!

BTW, I bet there is a hole for a padlock under this slide-out valve locking tab.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Richard_W

Yeah ... you wish ...

Either you have to assume it has a (virtual) Y-valve, or your device is not complaint with type 3 requirements ... ... choose your poison!

BTW, I bet there is a hole for a padlock under this slide-out valve locking tab.

Say what??? I have 2 holding tanks and 0 Y-valves. All head discharge goes into the tanks. The tanks have to be pumped out either by a pump out station or with the boat macerator system.

[Richard_W]

Originally Posted by Don L

Say what??? I have 2 holding tanks and 0 Y-valves. All head discharge goes into the tanks. The tanks have to be pumped out either by a pump out station or with the boat macerator system.

I would be surprised, and the remark about compliance would apply, if the macerator would not have some sort of valve/switch/mechanism to prevent the discharge.

I guess we need more rules ... the expression of intent is just not good enough ...

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Richard_W

I would be surprised, and the remark about compliance would apply, if the macerator would not have some sort of valve/switch/mechanism to prevent the discharge.

I guess we need more rules ... the expression of intent is just not good enough ...

I don't really understand what position you are trying to take. The "intent" is to prevent you from pumping your head directly overboard.

If all my heads discharge goes to a holding tank how is that not meeting the "intent"?

And far as other "compliance", in order to on-board discharge my holding tanks it takes; opening the discharge valve, shutting the pump breaker, and pushing and HOLDING the pump run button. Pretty hard to do this by accident.

But the reg is pretty specific what you have to have and specify says "Y Valve" far as the locking goes.

[Richard_W]

Originally Posted by Don L

I don't really understand what position you are trying to take. The "intent" is to prevent you from pumping your head directly overboard.

Hmm ... I thought you are playing with words, and posting in jest.

Based on the description your system is complaint (I never dobted that) the way it is engineered, and without physical Y-valve. Your system components provide the functionality of the Y-valve ... meaning two different paths for discharge ... one to onboard tank, and one via macerator outside. The outside discharge can be closed and secured when needed ... all is well.

What I was saying in my response to markpierce's playful question is:

You do not have to have a physical Y-valve to have an equivalent functionality in the system, and then you are still suppose to have means and use them to secure against unintended discharge outside.

Hope this explains ... kind of hard to be concise and clear at the same time ...