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Old 27-11-2015, 15:49   #61
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Re: If go overboard, how can one keep still in cold water?

Maybe it would be useful for all that sail in cold waters to get used to the cold water. If you are not used to it, that might make the shock worse. I mean that I live in an area where warm water could be said to be an exception and cold water more like the norm. I have been in cold water many times and have never felt any extra shock like effects when entering cold water. Of course the water is shocking cold, but I know to expect that. So, what I'm thinking here is that maybe this problem of initial shock is mostly curable. Just practice it few times (at the shore) and then you won't be surprised of the chilling effects any more.

Another observation is that whatever you do, do it fast. Make sure that you can climb back to your boat quickly and easily. Maybe have some ladders available. During the first minute in the water you are still very warm and flexible, and certainly energetic because of the chill. You should not be afraid of the cold water. You can for example get quite efficiently back to a dinghy by first grabbing the dinghy, then pushing yourself completely under the water, and then draw yourself quickly back up and straight into the dinghy. It might be useful to practice also this kind of basic tricks, so you know them when you need them. (Warm water practice is acceptable here .)
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Old 28-11-2015, 09:22   #62
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Re: If go overboard, how can one keep still in cold water?

Here in Ontario people dying from cold water immersion/hypothermia is a weekly event, starts the day a skim of ice covers the lakes, ends when there is no ice left. Snowmobilers.......
People are delusional if they think they are immune to the effects of hypothermia and cold water shock.
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Old 28-11-2015, 10:22   #63
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Re: If go overboard, how can one keep still in cold water?

[QUOTE=Cadence;1972259]I think that is junk science. I can recall deciding to swim to a beach on lake Champlain from Pops boat docked at Essex NY. I believe the water wasn't much over 40. I was one stroking 8 yr. old. Obviously I didn't suffer cardiac arrest. I was shivering walking back down the dock to the boat.[/QUOTE

Cadence,
Obx's excellent description is not junk science and is exactly what happens if you are an unfortunate soul that goes overboard in cold water. A few years ago on Lake Michigan in July, a man piloted his 36' Searay about 2 miles offshore and turned off the engine to drift with the current as many powerboaters do in the Great Lakes . He decided to take a refreshing swim and jumped in the water off the rear swim platform. His wife and two small children said he was initially stunned by the cold water, his body began to shiver and shut down as he slowly drifted away from the boat and went into cardiac arrest. He sunk within minutes while his family, unable to start the boat, watched in terror. His body was never recovered. As other have mentioned, your chances for survival are very bad if you fall overboard in cold water. You have a small window for recovery before death ensues. Stay on the boat.
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Old 28-11-2015, 11:25   #64
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Re: If go overboard, how can one keep still in cold water?

[QUOTE=rognvald;1973356]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadence View Post
I think that is junk science. I can recall deciding to swim to a beach on lake Champlain from Pops boat docked at Essex NY. I believe the water wasn't much over 40. I was one stroking 8 yr. old. Obviously I didn't suffer cardiac arrest. I was shivering walking back down the dock to the boat.[/QUOTE

Cadence,
Obx's excellent description is not junk science and is exactly what happens if you are an unfortunate soul that goes overboard in cold water. A few years ago on Lake Michigan in July, a man piloted his 36' Searay about 2 miles offshore and turned off the engine to drift with the current as many powerboaters do in the Great Lakes . He decided to take a refreshing swim and jumped in the water off the rear swim platform. His wife and two small children said he was initially stunned by the cold water, his body began to shiver and shut down as he slowly drifted away from the boat and went into cardiac arrest. He sunk within minutes while his family, unable to start the boat, watched in terror. His body was never recovered. As other have mentioned, your chances for survival are very bad if you fall overboard in cold water. You have a small window for recovery before death ensues. Stay on the boat.
I think I already admitted to junk science being a poor choice of words on my part.
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Old 28-11-2015, 11:45   #65
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Re: If go overboard, how can one keep still in cold water?

the "junk science" experts say that within 15 mins of falling into 55f seas you will die of hypotheria. not drowning. this is in print, thanks to physicians and medical personnel who are actual emergency room and sar workers, physicians and paramedics, yup totally junk science....
unfortunately it is not ajunk science and those naysayers should do a full half hour swim or swim from catalina island to lost angeles and report back.
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Old 28-11-2015, 12:00   #66
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Re: If go overboard, how can one keep still in cold water?

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the "junk science" experts say that within 15 mins of falling into 55f seas you will die of hypotheria. not drowning. this is in print, thanks to physicians and medical personnel who are actual emergency room and sar workers, physicians and paramedics, yup totally junk science....
unfortunately it is not ajunk science and those naysayers should do a full half hour swim or swim from catalina island to lost angeles and report back.
I guess you may drown as a result of hypothermia rendering you unconscious. Probably more feasible that the initial sock causing a reflex inhalation of water although I guess that can happen.
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Old 28-11-2015, 12:04   #67
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Re: If go overboard, how can one keep still in cold water?

If the shore is distant, you conserve energy. If the shore is close, you swim.

If you do not have a neoprene suit on you, you die in no time when the water is cool (not cold) enough. Stop worrying.

As per your original question: it is difficult. If you think you will go overboard, wear a neoprene or a gtex drysuit.

b.
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Old 28-11-2015, 12:10   #68
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Re: If go overboard, how can one keep still in cold water?

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If the shore is distant, you conserve energy. If the shore is close, you swim.

If you do not have a neoprene suit on you, you die in no time when the water is cool (not cold) enough. Stop worrying.

As per your original question: it is difficult. If you think you will go overboard, wear a neoprene or a gtex drysuit.

b.
If you dive put the wet suit on.
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Old 28-11-2015, 15:21   #69
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Re: If go overboard, how can one keep still in cold water?

[QUOTE=rognvald;1973356]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadence View Post
I think that is junk science. [/QUOTE

Cadence,
Obx's excellent description is not junk science and is exactly what happens if you are an unfortunate soul that goes overboard in cold water.
It's not junk science, it's just pure BS by warm water wussies...
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Old 28-11-2015, 15:44   #70
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Re: If go overboard, how can one keep still in cold water?

Might as well throw in a few facts in between all the BS:

Hypothermia Prevention: Survial in Cold Water | Minnesota Sea Grant


https://www.boat-ed.com/minnesota/st...1024_700001431
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Old 28-11-2015, 15:51   #71
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Re: If go overboard, how can one keep still in cold water?

[QUOTE=TeddyDiver;1973541]
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Originally Posted by rognvald View Post

It's not junk science, it's just pure BS by warm water wussies...
Cold water will cause a reaction. I believe drowning from hypothermia and passing out is far more likely. 98.6F is to cold for my skinny ass. I didn't realize my misuse of Junk Science would cause such a reaction?
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Old 29-11-2015, 13:56   #72
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Re: If go overboard, how can one keep still in cold water?

What Sailing Gal said is important about the core temperature. The object is to protect the temperature of vital organs. When you're rescued it's also important to protect those innards, not just send blood rushing to warm up hands and feet. May you be safe (and warm).
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Old 29-11-2015, 14:05   #73
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Re: If go overboard, how can one keep still in cold water?

[QUOTE=Cadence;1973551]
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeddyDiver View Post

Cold water will cause a reaction. I believe drowning from hypothermia and passing out is far more likely. 98.6F is to cold for my skinny ass. I didn't realize my misuse of Junk Science would cause such a reaction?

yeah and I'm sorry for first pointing it out. Your quick acknowledgement was gracious. I'm thinking very few are reading the thread
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Old 29-11-2015, 14:17   #74
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Re: If go overboard, how can one keep still in cold water?

Just a point of clarification on this issue of 'shock syndrome'. There are two different things being talked about.

1) One is where sudden cold has an unexpected and immediate affect on the body. This can be experienced with people jump off things, especially into rivers and two meters below the water the temp is way below that of the surface. I'm a little mystyfied that some people are disputing this. It's a fact. It's the most common killer of people jumping into some of our fresh water watering holes. (Then there is the hitting head etc) For sailors, this is a problem in 'some areas' but I doubt it's that common.

2) The most common problem sailors can experience that contributes to huge but unknown numbers of deaths, is where the sailor/boat person, is not expecting to go in. Such as a sudden dumping from a jibe, or wave coming over the boat. Without warning the sailor has no time to take a breath or the 'thump' expells air and as soon as they land they gasp in air but are under water when they do it. They just don't come to the surface.

Temperature can have something to do with it. Even down our way where we sail most of the year in cold water, we know it's often below freezing, but when your not expecting to go swimming that sudden dumping in cold water does strange things to your body (what others have described). Hense why a pfd is so important. But, you don't have to be in cold temperature zone's to be suddenly dumped overboard when you were not expecting it and to be immediately in trouble.

There's way too much opinion on this going on and honestly I don't understand why. Water Temperature can kill, sudden unexpected ditching can kill! Both are known facts. As sailors, that's what we need to plan for.
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Old 29-11-2015, 14:43   #75
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Re: If go overboard, how can one keep still in cold water?

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... where we sail most of the year in cold water, we know it's often below freezing....
I've heard the rules are different in Australia. I've been in 0C water (dry suit), and even -2C water, but never below freezing.

( sorry, couldn't help myself)

Only once did I ever go in 30-something water without appropriate gear, something of an emergency. But I had been working hard and was slightly over heated (helps a lot), was wearing wind blocker fleece, and was able to walking into the water. Still cold. It is not at all hard to imagine someone taking an involuntary gulp if it was a surprise.
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