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Old 16-01-2006, 07:06   #31
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I have been told that I should glass a hand gun to the hull , that way I would have one if needed. I would think it would take some time to get it out of wherever it was and it may not be worth having.
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Old 16-01-2006, 10:32   #32
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"glass a handgun to the hull"

So you have a gun on board that you can't use, and can't declare. If they find it, they will assume you are smuggling firearms into their country. Enjoy your jail term.

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Old 16-01-2006, 11:42   #33
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Mudnut, you are right, there is more to it. That is what you will get from my posts, (I hope). There is more to think about. And we have to becareful how we even think about the "pirate".(No I AM NOT condoning their actions, I still Condem it) but... In a 1st world country, they are and should be considered criminals. But in some of the 3rd world countries, we even have to think about the "pirate" in a different way. Some of these people aren't "criminals" as such as we would normally consider one. They are very very poor, most often starving, most often have a family starving and dyeing and they are just trying to survive. Some are coming from countries with corrupt govenrment, civil war, famine etc. They view us travelers as having the wealth of Bill Gates when compared to them. Yes we have to protect ourselves, but I think it is also good to view the fact, that many of these people are not Low-lifes as such, they are just trying to survive another day in the most adverse conditions they happen to be born in.
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Old 16-01-2006, 12:39   #34
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Perhaps a

more creative weapon is in order. 38 caliber bang sticks, zip guns, cattle prods, pepper canisters for repelling bears, knives, baseball bats, the list goes on and on and on and.............. Where does it end? It ends at the end of man's creative instincts and will to be secure. I always carry weapons aboard my boat. I never carry a gun but then, I don't go to places where I may be in danger.
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Old 16-01-2006, 17:21   #35
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Like I said I'm not taking any guns.
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Old 16-01-2006, 18:05   #36
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Well I am one of the gun owners who take ours with us. We stay in the countries that don't care if we have one as long as it is legal and we declare it.
I have been around guns all my life, hell even been very seriously shot as a kid. But I will not let anyone hurt my loved ones. They can have anything I have, nothing material is worth a life, thiers or mine, but I will protect my family.
And good or bad a lot of people in this country have guns and some of them are not sanely thinking individuals.
And for the record no assault a couple of pistols and long guns for hunting
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Old 16-01-2006, 18:22   #37
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Wheels, it is important to differentiat between the man stealing food for his family, and the professional pirate. Most of those "just trying to survive" will break into your boat, and steal things that they feel they can sell while you are at anchor. These are acts of oppertunity. These thieves are easily dealt with by just being there. The real concern is the proffessional. These people are often sanctioned by their governments in the sense that these governments will turn a blind eye to their actions. As such, you can be certain that if you use a fire arm against them, You will be the one to go to jail. I realize that I am preachig to the choir where you are concerned, but I thought your comment needed some elaboration.
As for a gun fiberglassed to the hull
If you do not get caught and sent to a mexican jail for VERY long time, what the heck are you going to do with the darn thing? First, take a screw driver, and try to remove a piece of wood that has been glassed in. Then, when you realize how many hour it will take to get a gun out of the glass, consider what happens to carbon steel when it is exposed to moisture for a long time. I would rather be the bad guy when you fire that thing, because I doubt the bullet will make it that far, and I will have an easy time relieving you of your valuables after you blow your face off.
Bottom line is, there is a place and a use for guns. Bad guys will always be able to get guns, and if you are depending on a gun to protect you from unexpected attackers, you will always be at the disadvantage. Common sense will always be you best defense. keep a good watch. Keep in radio contact with other cruisers whenever possible. If you see a suspicious boat, let someone know, and if you can not reach someone on the radio, at least make sure the whole crew is aware and has a plan. get everyone on deck. And, if you are still adamant about having a weapon on board, make the decision to use it, or keep it stowed before you are approached. If you are standing on deck with a weapon in hand, your intention will be clear, and the intentions of the approaching vessel will likely be made clear immediately as well. Everything that is done should be planned, and understood by al members of the crew ahead of time. I firmly believe that having all the cards on the table, so there are no confused signals is the best way to stay alive. If it is not you intention to shoot anyone who boards your vessel without permission, leave the weapon stowed.
The Turkish have a tradition that I respect, and live by. A sword that leaves it's sheath must draw blood.
I realize these are probably unpopular opinions in allot of circles. but they are my approach.
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Old 16-01-2006, 22:52   #38
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I just hope all understands that my comment doesn't mean I condon "pirate" action, no matter who and how impoverished they maybe. I just wanted to show that it isn't a simple case of JUST greed in ALL situations. And thus, if the time ever came to have to point a weapon and pull a trigger, that it isn't just from a Gunho-nobody messes with me attitude. And it maybe that the approach of "dis-arming" a situation may become different. Like as inffered, hold up a Beer instead of a Gun. It just may change everything peacebly.
I do understand and agree with the attitude that we must also protect ourselves and our family.
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Old 16-01-2006, 23:37   #39
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I understood you Wheels.
I agree that just because it is from desperation does not mean it is acceptable, but it does change the degree of threat. I also agree on taking what ever steps are needed to protect my family and crew, but I do not agree that having a gun on board is the best way to do this. Like I said, all cards on the table. That way, there is no mistake. If you are dealing with proffessional pirates, they are likely as well trained, or better trained than you are. They will not make amatuer mistakes, and they will shoot you if you are pointing a weapon at them. No discussion. To think that having a weapon drawn and ready will intimidate someone like this to go for an easier target is nieve. This ain't the movies. THey will not stop to explain the plot. When a gun is brought into the equation, you limit your options. They will most likely do one of two things. They will either leave, or shoot. You will be out gunned, and the best you can hope for is to be in the water near your sinking boat when the shooting stops.
Don't mean to rant, but I have tried to stay out of this subject on this and the other thread, even though it is something I feel very strong about. I respect anyones right to carry a gun aboard their boat, but I feel it is a bad decision. I am also concerned about the stigma that that projects. If the bad guys start believing that all US flagged vessels are armed, they will start shooting instead of intimidating. I admit I am one to bring a knife to a gun fight, but if you are fool enough to stop and explain what that gun can do to me, you will have the knife in your back by the end of your sentence.
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Old 17-01-2006, 01:34   #40
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Whaddaya mean it ain't like the movies. Are you saying, if I shoot at something, it won't just blow up with the force of 1/2 ton of C4? That hand guns don't have hundreds of rounds in the chamber? That handguns are not repeatedly dead on accurate? That after someone is miraclulously saved from a life threatening ordeal, the sea imediatly calms? And that there isn't intense dramatic music playing through the ordeal, only to instantly become sweet soothing music afterwards? And surely no, you don't mean the boat and her crew DON'T always without fail, sail of into the Sunset?
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Old 17-01-2006, 14:50   #41
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beer vs guns

We'll never know what would have happened if Rod Nowlin (of the infamous Mahdi and Gandalf story) had offered a beer to the pirates instead of blowing them away, so I have to ask if anyone has successfully used the "come aboard and we'll crack some cold ones" method to thwart crime?

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Old 17-01-2006, 15:05   #42
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I think the problem with "come aboard and we'll crack some cold ones" is when it works you can't know if you needed to in the first place. That is if you don't intend to be nice more than you have to. Probably a poor attitde for going around the world being pissed off at every one. Might not make many firends.

I don't see how being nice can be worse than not having enough power to blow them all away easily. Pirates bent on destruction won't really be detered unless totally convinced you'll smoke them or someone else will as quick.

People leary of your actions will be assured and perhaps less likely to be negative even if the don't intend to be welcoming. Theywant to know you are not threatening as much as you do.

Normal people appreciate it when you are nice even if they don't look like what you are used to seeing as normal. That is the real problem as we all bring a fair amount of what we are used to along and are indeed more leary of people that appear or seem very different (or perhaps similar). Over reaction is always a risk.
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Old 17-01-2006, 19:43   #43
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Paul,

You assume the two are mutually exclusive. In the navy we do a fair amount of flag-waving and pressing-the-flesh, yet we're armed to the teeth. In fact I could see where one would have the ability to be friendlier when one is 'protected.' If your only defence is a 'hasty retreat' you will tend to keep your distance.
imho.

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Old 17-01-2006, 20:15   #44
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No Wheels, no endless clips I think I might have to have my pirate tape made though. They can't shoot you if you have the love seen music playing right?
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Old 17-01-2006, 21:29   #45
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Oh wait Wheels.

Let me break out the cloaking device. And the phasers, & photon torpedoes.
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