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Old 23-01-2018, 11:14   #76
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Re: I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

Just another note. If you opt to purchase a rifle, go with a heavy grain slug, possibly hollow-point if available. I would not go with a semi-auto due to the possibility of jamming due to the cold. A pump action can spit out rounds pretty quick in the hands of a capable individual. A lever-action would be a bit slower but still quicker than a bolt-action. I prefer my bolt-action with a 4X scope, simple, very accurate and dependable.
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Old 23-01-2018, 11:34   #77
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Re: I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

What I bought when I was going camping up on the north slope in Alaska was a .308 Win rifle with a ten round magazine, and twenty would be better. As my pal who lives in Alaska says, one .308 round is barely enough to faze a polar bear or grizzly, so you need to be able to hit him multiple times if he comes at you. So a couple of magazines which allows for reloading is appropriate. All this is easier said than done, though. The amount of adrenaline that will be pumping if you are charged makes your accuracy worse (I know from experience - just not with bears), which is another argument in favor of multi-round magazines. Of course, the best course of action by far is to retreat from any situation that would even remotely result in a confrontation with a bear.

That's my two cents.
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Old 23-01-2018, 11:35   #78
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Re: I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

The Canadian Rangers, well trained in polar bear deterrence use 308s, I would never use a shotgun it will piss the bear off and you will die, nobody I know in the Canadian Arcitic uses shotguns for safety, I carry a 338 lapua because that what I have.......
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Old 23-01-2018, 11:41   #79
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Re: I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

a 308 is adequate for the job.
Aiming for the right placement is the thing you have to learn.

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Old 23-01-2018, 11:42   #80
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Re: I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

These seem to be the applicable parts of the requirements...

It seems as if you are only required to take a gun if you go into the National Park, which covers just about everywhere north of
Ittoqqortoormiit (71N). But it is not required (but recommended) in the area immediately around Ittoqqortoormiit and points south.

If you do take a gun to fulfill this requirement it has to be manual rifle of 30-06 or larger calibre. Discussions of other sizes/shapes of guns are moot.

You need to apply for your Greenland firearms permit at least 8 weeks beforehand.

I'm sure you already knew all this ... but hopefully this will help keep the discussion steered in the right direction.

Quote:
5.2.1. Who needs to bring a firearm?
Projects and expeditions to the Greenland National Park are obliged to bring a firearm as well as polar bear deterrents. The authorities strongly recommend all expeditions to the coastal areas of Greenland outside the National Park to bring a firearm and polar bear deterrents, but this is strictly a recommendation and not compulsory in order to obtain a permit.

5.2.2. Minimum calibre requirements
The minimum calibre for firearms is 30.06 (7.62 mm), in accordance with 9, stk. 3 of the Executive Order nr. 21 of September 22nd 2005, on the Protection and Hunting of Polar Bears. The firearm must be a manual reputed rifle, semi or full automatic rifles are not allowed in Greenland.

5.2.4. Important information about firearm permit
Once the firearm permit has been obtained from the Chief Constable of Greenland, the expedition leader must send a copy to the Expedition Office as soon as possible and no later then 8 weeks before expedition start.
I know nothing about guns or polar bears ... but if you need extra crew ... East Greenland has been on my hit-list for a looong time .
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Old 23-01-2018, 11:45   #81
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Re: I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

Polar bears actually hunt people, Grizzlies stumble onto someone then attack, the Rangers teach to live with polars you let them know you see them, they are less likely to stalk and hunt you if they know they have been seen, one old gent I know has never needed to shoot a bear, but is always on alert watching for them.....
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Old 23-01-2018, 11:50   #82
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Re: I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

dockhead,
admitting my travels up north are 20 plus years ago so regulations may be different, I completed five cruises north of Labrador.
On board arms besides flair guns consisted of a 20 gauge /Winchester .22 long combo gun. Ammo was hollow points for the rifle barrel and buck shot for the shotgun barrel.

The game plan was to avoid a close confrontation with a polar bear and utilizing the shotgun as a deterrent of noise and pain. The intent was not to kill the bear, just make the decision that we were not the easiest meal.

A face full of buckshot requires very little aiming and packs a blinding wallop if that close.
The .22 would have penetrated the skull if that was needed.
we all were proficient with guns and concluded this was both light enough to carry ashore and utilize if running.

The action was super simple so concern of corrosion reduced/and easy to lubricate. Until our first need the gun was packed in heavy grease to avoid the corrosion issue.
Do not get steel shot- it tends to rust internally over time and if fired may explode the barrel.(not good)

Most of the North America countries do not require registration of long guns nor do they nit pick on one gun with explanation. If boarded and asked, generally it is if you have a gun, location, and is it chambered. That said, we did not offer knowledge of such unless asked.

This gun was also inexpensive- the choice in case it was dropped overboard, taken, or corroded.

One mention of stainless guns- be sure the receiver is also stainless. Not all are. The better method is a routine cleaning and lubrication.
happy travels- I can only caution the ice is addictive.
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Old 23-01-2018, 11:50   #83
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Re: I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

308 is technically smaller than 30.06......I guess they what 30.06 or bigger meaning the 338 class.....
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Old 23-01-2018, 11:52   #84
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Re: I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by P3sailor View Post
Just another note. If you opt to purchase a rifle, go with a heavy grain slug, possibly hollow-point if available. I would not go with a semi-auto due to the possibility of jamming due to the cold. A pump action can spit out rounds pretty quick in the hands of a capable individual. A lever-action would be a bit slower but still quicker than a bolt-action. I prefer my bolt-action with a 4X scope, simple, very accurate and dependable.
Is a scope needed? the guns are for self defence close in, no one is going to be taking 300 yrd shots, particularly at something moving.

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Old 23-01-2018, 11:59   #85
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Re: I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

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Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
.30-06 IS .30 caliber.
Obviously, thus 30 the 06 is the first year of production. I said verses a 30cal. carbine. Just compare the cartridge jacket size. I think his best bet would be renting locally and probably get some sage advise. Another consideration would not freezing up if being charged. It is my understanding the bears are fast. I might consider two people with guns. A friend stationed on an ice island said they were required to travel in pairs.
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Old 23-01-2018, 12:06   #86
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Re: I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

In the UK, shotguns with more than a 3 round (1 in chamber, 2 in tube) are a "firearms licence", not a "shotgun Certificate" gun.
Applications for a shotgun Certificate are not as difficult as the firearms certificate ones. On good cause shown, you could apply for a visitor's permit, which is valid for a few months, if you are not a UK resident.
Some Scandinavian countries prefer you to go ashore with a weapon, if you are in Polar Bear country. Some pretty much insist on it.
A shotgun shell with a "flash bang" round, backed up by eg Brenneke rifled slugs are adequate. Most bears gap it when they are surprised by the flash bang rounds. A .308 rifle is more than adequate, but get premium ammunition fit for dangerous game. The quality of the ammunition is very important, shots will be close up if it gets to that and projectiles that break up when they hit bone are useless. I am a hunter, and have a .308 and a .375 H&H. And a 7 shot shotgun. All will do the job, if called upon.
Best to check for bears on landing. If one around, get back in the dink, or better still, stay on board and well clear of the shore. When they come out of hibernation, or have cubs, they are fast, hungry and extremely dangerous. I would in such a case not rely on the flash bang round to drive it off. Stay well clear, is my advice.
I have a "European Firearms Pass" which is issued with my firearms licence and shotgun Certificate for free, and this document is recognised and respected by authorities all over Europe. Most Countries around here issue them to their licence holders and Customs Officers are very cooperative when you present them for their inspection. Never had a problem or any conditions imposed. From time to time, there are Polar Bear attacks and normally humans come off second best. The North is very desolate, if you don't look after yourself, no one else around. Yes, there are places where one can rent a rifle or a shotgun. If you don't know how to use them well, employ a guide, or better still, join a tour. An Army background from years ago, does not make one capable of stopping a high speed bear attack. Polar bears are solitary, other than with cubs. I am not aware of any attacks on humans by multiple bears. These bears are also an endangered species, best to give them a very wide berth and avoid a confrontation at all cost. Best to keep the remaining few breeding for future generations!
In the UK, you could not buy a rifle or a shotgun without a licence and keep them on board. There are export provisions for sporting arms and you can download the paperwork. My firearms were kept at the Airport free of charge by very cooperative Customs Officers, and were then collected by a firearms dealer for safekeeping until I had my UK licences. That took a few weeks but I had South African Firearms Licences and hunting credentials, which made the application and checking process quick and easy. I have only had licenced firearms and never lived in a country like the USA, where there is no licencing other than for concealed carry and automatic guns and the like. The safe keeping rules are very strict all over Europe, I would recommend a proper gun safe bolted to a bulkhead. This would satisfy most authorities. Nearly all people I am aware of who visit the far north and have guns for shore excursions, have such a safe. Mine cost a few hundred pounds and meets all their requirements. It makes the guys happy when they inspect the guns against the licences when they see that you are responsible and protect your guns against opportunistic thieves. Firearms ownership is not common in Europe and it is up to us Hunters and owners to show the authorities that we are the good guys and are very responsible people, who can be trusted with guns in their country. Simply keeping a gun in a slip, with or without a lock is not going to cut it in most places I know, and in my opinion rightly so.
I hope that this may be helpful. If you are in the UK, contact me and I can take you shooting with a few calibres and shotguns.
Not all people enjoy it, if it is not for you,this would be a good time to find out and to hire a guide or join a tour, as I said before. Being unskilled as a hunter and in charge of the safety of your crew and your own is daunting. Wounding an innocent animal is avoidable and in the case of a Polar Bear, sad, stupid and quite possibly a death sentence. If she has cubs with her, a tragedy. They take years before they are independent. Even more reason for a skilled and experienced guide to free you up for great pictures! Do get in touch if I can be of help. Fair winds!!!
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Old 23-01-2018, 12:13   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biomed View Post
In the UK, shotguns with more than a 3 round (1 in chamber, 2 in tube) are a "firearms licence", not a "shotgun Certificate" gun.
Applications for a shotgun Certificate are not as difficult as the firearms certificate ones. On good cause shown, you could apply for a visitor's permit, which is valid for a few months, if you are not a UK resident.
Some Scandinavian countries prefer you to go ashore with a weapon, if you are in Polar Bear country. Some pretty much insist on it.
A shotgun shell with a "flash bang" round, backed up by eg Brenneke rifled slugs are adequate. Most bears gap it when they are surprised by the flash bang rounds. A .308 rifle is more than adequate, but get premium ammunition fit for dangerous game. The quality of the ammunition is very important, shots will be close up if it gets to that and projectiles that break up when they hit bone are useless. I am a hunter, and have a .308 and a .375 H&H. And a 7 shot shotgun. All will do the job, if called upon.
Best to check for bears on landing. If one around, get back in the dink, or better still, stay on board and well clear of the shore. When they come out of hibernation, or have cubs, they are fast, hungry and extremely dangerous. I would in such a case not rely on the flash bang round to drive it off. Stay well clear, is my advice.
I have a "European Firearms Pass" which is issued with my firearms licence and shotgun Certificate for free, and this document is recognised and respected by authorities all over Europe. Most Countries around here issue them to their licence holders and Customs Officers are very cooperative when you present them for their inspection. Never had a problem or any conditions imposed. From time to time, there are Polar Bear attacks and normally humans come off second best. The North is very desolate, if you don't look after yourself, no one else around. Yes, there are places where one can rent a rifle or a shotgun. If you don't know how to use them well, employ a guide, or better still, join a tour. An Army background from years ago, does not make one capable of stopping a high speed bear attack. Polar bears are solitary, other than with cubs. I am not aware of any attacks on humans by multiple bears. These bears are also an endangered species, best to give them a very wide berth and avoid a confrontation at all cost. Best to keep the remaining few breeding for future generations!
In the UK, you could not buy a rifle or a shotgun without a licence and keep them on board. There are export provisions for sporting arms and you can download the paperwork. My firearms were kept at the Airport free of charge by very cooperative Customs Officers, and were then collected by a firearms dealer for safekeeping until I had my UK licences. That took a few weeks but I had South African Firearms Licences and hunting credentials, which made the application and checking process quick and easy. I have only had licenced firearms and never lived in a country like the USA, where there is no licencing other than for concealed carry and automatic guns and the like. The safe keeping rules are very strict all over Europe, I would recommend a proper gun safe bolted to a bulkhead. This would satisfy most authorities. Nearly all people I am aware of who visit the far north and have guns for shore excursions, have such a safe. Mine cost a few hundred pounds and meets all their requirements. It makes the guys happy when they inspect the guns against the licences when they see that you are responsible and protect your guns against opportunistic thieves. Firearms ownership is not common in Europe and it is up to us Hunters and owners to show the authorities that we are the good guys and are very responsible people, who can be trusted with guns in their country. Simply keeping a gun in a slip, with or without a lock is not going to cut it in most places I know, and in my opinion rightly so.
I hope that this may be helpful. If you are in the UK, contact me and I can take you shooting with a few calibres and shotguns.
Not all people enjoy it, if it is not for you,this would be a good time to find out and to hire a guide or join a tour, as I said before. Being unskilled as a hunter and in charge of the safety of your crew and your own is daunting. Wounding an innocent animal is avoidable and in the case of a Polar Bear, sad, stupid and quite possibly a death sentence. If she has cubs with her, a tragedy. They take years before they are independent. Even more reason for a skilled and experienced guide to free you up for great pictures! Do get in touch if I can be of help. Fair winds!!!
An excellent post.. Thank You..
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Old 23-01-2018, 12:17   #88
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Re: I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

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The Canadian Rangers, well trained in polar bear deterrence use 308s, I would never use a shotgun it will piss the bear off and you will die, nobody I know in the Canadian Arcitic uses shotguns for safety, I carry a 338 lapua because that what I have.......
But is a rifle designed for use by a sniper that has a big round suitable for a team of mixed ability when caught out at close range? and will they be able to use it in a panic situation? or could they even hit the target? most people can't hit a moving target on a firing range.

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Old 23-01-2018, 12:28   #89
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Re: I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

Tidbit from up north. Many Canadian black bear guides will hand you a 12 gauge with slugs when you get to camp. Some won't even take you out with a rifle. Close range, they have the knock down one may need (but it is truly rare to happen)
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Old 23-01-2018, 12:34   #90
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Re: I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

Good advice from Blomed!
Pete, the reason for a small power scope is for accuracy, too many variables with iron sights, even at close range, if not a capable shooter, if the front and rear sights are not lined up properly, you will not hit the kill zone. I've hunted for many years and unfortunately found that out at an early age, wounding an animal is not a pleasant thought, in my book. Oh, my all around rifle, a 30-06 (180 gr. soft pt has the best accuracy in my rifle) has a wide range of cartridges to choose from and good for most North American big game.
Can't stress enough to practice, figure out the best caliber for your use, then try different types of cartridge manufacturers and grain. You'll be surprised how differently they group. Obviously, some better than others. Let common sense prevail!
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