How to avoid being killed ?

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by zeehag

do not be a victim.
do not flaunt wealth.
avoid areas that are known for trouble.

Best advice I can think of. Spot on Zeehag. You are your own best friend/defense.

Living in suburban Grand Rapids and other small midwest towns we are accustomed to leaving our doors & cars unlocked. We returned after a week vacation and found a faulty latch had left our door swinging wide. No problem. Traveling in dodgy places will be a mental challenge for us. Grow your street smarts and think before you drop the hook.

[BandB]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

Best advice I can think of. Spot on Zeehag. You are your own best friend/defense.

Living in suburban Grand Rapids and other small midwest towns we are accustomed to leaving our doors & cars unlocked. We returned after a week vacation and found a faulty latch had left our door swinging wide. No problem. Traveling in dodgy places will be a mental challenge for us. Grow your street smarts and think before you drop the hook.

Or maybe you're just fortunate. Grand Rapids crime rate 43 per 1000, Michigan 30 per 1000, US. Now I live in Fort Lauderdale at 70 per 1000 but like most tourist areas we're high when measured against residents as some of the crime is by and against those who don't live here. However, I moved from an area 26 per 1000 and still locked my doors.

Yes, we may travel to areas that increase the risk but it exists anywhere. Now, we all should prudently select where to go and how to protect ourselves there. I do believe in locked doors on boats, security systems with alarms, lights, and cameras. Also, if anchored alone in areas where I wouldn't recommend it, then I would recommend keeping someone on watch.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by minaret

I have been much ridiculed in the past here in the forum for suggesting knives for self defense. But at risk if more of the same, here is some of what I carry and the thinking behind it.


I think a tomahawk is a great hand to hand weapon, but a poor choice for a boat. Strictly because it must be swung and therefore needs room. On deck there is rigging and the like in the way, and the interior will often also be too constrained for a good swing. This may work to your advantage if your assailant has a machete. You need a thrusting weapon. Spears are best, but you need to get by customs and in many countries (Mexico), even large knives are illegal. The machete isn't. So you need a large thrusting knife which can easily be confused for a machete or other tool. I like and own:


SOG Spirit Knife


SOG® Spirit Knife : Cabela's

Not bad - can it pass the various security goons? I bought a nasty hook knife as advertised in the magazines. It has sharp stuff & hooks with serated stuff on almost all surfaces. It is made to snap into a gaff pole so you can operate it at some distance. It will cause immense harm wielded or yanked in almost any direction. Hope I never need to try it. I have though that adding solid grates secured from the inside to ports and hatches would let one defend using this brutal tool. The problem with guns - legal offshore is that the port officials will confiscate them in many ports of entry. Another option is a sub caliber insert for a 26mm metal flare launcher. There are available inserts to fire 22 long, 45 LC, and 410 shot. If you wish to chance detection, you can hide the inserts and ammo. Some places will let you in with ammo but only if it is counted and locked - accounted for on exit.

The best plan is to avoid bad places. Check out Noonsite and other web tools before you go.

[captain58sailin]

If I were to put myself in the shoes of the folks ashore, I would be looking to rob an unoccupied boat. There are those that are addicted to the adrenaline rush, or some other chemical, that is looking for the confrontation. Me I would be there to feed my family, not have a fight. I would have to exhaust all other possibilities before I would try to take on a yacht, if for no more reason than the hell that would rain down from the town cops.

[k9medic]

Safety is a mindset and as the saying goes, the best offense is a good defense. Unfortunately the thought process that many possess is that "it won't happen to me." The will to live must be stronger than the fear of death itself.

As kids, you may have gotten into a fight or two, but have you every truly had to fight for your life? Until you have done so, you will never truly know what it means to have the will to live. You must possess the mental tenacity to endure what is being presented with the FULL KNOWLEDGE that anything less will most likely result in your death.

I am in Europe right now on a work assignment. Last night I found myself in an area that was not typically known for tourist. As soon as I recognized that, I immediately returned to the tourist area - was I scared, no. Should I have been, probably not. Did I have a good reason to be there (other than I was lost), NO. So make a change in direction.



I would also suggest looking into some books by Dave Grossman. I have attended several of his training classes in my line of work and have read numerous books of his.
The Bulletproof Mind as well as The Warrior Mindset are two good books. Books and Chapters by Lieutenant Colonel Dave Grossman

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by snort

Bring along an attack dog, like the one in the picture.

how 'bout this one? Big guy unfortunately gone

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

Not bad - can it pass the various security goons? I bought a nasty hook knife as advertised in the magazines. It has sharp stuff & hooks with serated stuff on almost all surfaces. It is made to snap into a gaff pole so you can operate it at some distance. It will cause immense harm wielded or yanked in almost any direction. Hope I never need to try it. I have though that adding solid grates secured from the inside to ports and hatches would let one defend using this brutal tool. The problem with guns - legal offshore is that the port officials will confiscate them in many ports of entry. Another option is a sub caliber insert for a 26mm metal flare launcher. There are available inserts to fire 22 long, 45 LC, and 410 shot. If you wish to chance detection, you can hide the inserts and ammo. Some places will let you in with ammo but only if it is counted and locked - accounted for on exit.

The best plan is to avoid bad places. Check out Noonsite and other web tools before you go.

At $30 from Wal Mart it isn't a big deal if it ends up confiscated by some government goons somewhere. I actually use mine, when screwed on to a telescoping boat hook it's a great tool for dispatching and bleeding large fish alongside. One stab through the spine just behind the head to kill, a cut on either side just behind the gills to bleed them, then tow them in the water alongside for a minute or two before boating the fish. Then when you do boat them, there is zero struggle and no mess. My SOG has the necessary fish blood and scales to make it look like a legit fish knife. Might make it past customs, might not. Dual use, as per cruiser rules!

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

I accept that I can't take my guns along to foreign countries, and I don't want to have a dog aboard. Knives and even machetes require that you get pretty up close and personal and can be used against you and I have no training in knife or sword fighting techniques, so I like the idea of using chem warfare such as pepper spray to keep potential attackers at bay. Are products such as the Inferno Pepper Spray above legal to have on your boat or is it something you'd have to lie about on the custom forms or during a boarding? I accidentally got just a tiny bit in one of my eyes once so am familiar with just how quickly it made me lose interest in ANYTHING but rinsing it out ASAP. If I were aboard a boat and got sprayed in the face with this stuff, I can guarantee that I'd be begging and pleading for someone to please guide me to the rail and push me overboard so I could try to sooth my eyes in the ocean. Can anyone comment on the legality of pepper spray aboard your own boat throughout the Caribbean or the rest of the world?

Pepper spray is banned in many countries as this reference shows http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepper_spray

In some others it's licensed as a firearm , and in some its fully legal.

So you're good to go, sailing to Israel ( that's of course if they ever let you see it's coast )

Dave

[minaret]

Originally Posted by captain58sailin

If I were to put myself in the shoes of the folks ashore, I would be looking to rob an unoccupied boat. There are those that are addicted to the adrenaline rush, or some other chemical, that is looking for the confrontation. Me I would be there to feed my family, not have a fight. I would have to exhaust all other possibilities before I would try to take on a yacht, if for no more reason than the hell that would rain down from the town cops.

What if you lived in a place where when a yacht was "taken on" in the past, no hell rained down from the cops at all, and instead they just chuckled about it? Do you really think the cops in most of these places are actively pursuing dinghy and outboard thefts to the utmost of their ability? If they were, I dare say it would stop. People get stuff stolen off their boats while they are aboard all the time.

[Tantalus]

Originally Posted by k9medic

Safety is a mindset and as the saying goes, the best offense is a good defense. [/URL]

I believe the actual quote is "The best defense is a good offense".

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by minaret

What if you lived in a place where when a yacht was "taken on" in the past, no hell rained down from the cops at all, and instead they just chuckled about it? Do you really think the cops in most of these places are actively pursuing dinghy and outboard thefts to the utmost of their ability? If they were, I dare say it would stop. People get stuff stolen off their boats while they are aboard all the time.

Yes mostly because cruisers are extraordinary careless about such things and undertake few precautions to prevent such robberies. It's no different in the first world, try getting the police in the UK interested in an outboard robbery!!! ( " I presume the outboard is insured sir, very good , ill make a few notes , don't get your hopes up ", and filed in the " forget it " cabinet )

Dave

[minaret]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Yes mostly because cruisers are extraordinary careless about such things and undertake few precautions to prevent such robberies. It's no different in the first world, try getting the police in the UK interested in an outboard robbery!!! ( " I presume the outboard is insured sir, very good , ill make a few notes , don't get your hopes up ", and filed in the " forget it " cabinet )

Dave

I'm extremely familiar with this attitude from police just about anywhere. My location is certainly no exception, far from it. That's why it doesn't surprise me elsewhere.


Had some burglaries around here recently. The cops don't even file a police report here anymore, they handed me the blank form and told me to fill it out myself and mail it in. They didn't have the time. This for an obvious felony crime!

[captain58sailin]

There are some locales when a tourist is robbed all the usual suspects are rounded up and they all have a bad time of it. Hurt a tourist and it goes to a whole new level. Sometimes the local powers that be recognize the benefit of the tourist, and do not want anything to dissuade the tourist from coming for a visit. True not in all places, but some. I was not attempting to address all the possible locations.

[Blue Crab]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Tasers: often regulated ... Pepper sprays: often regulated ... OTOH there are any number of aerosol products that may already be in your paint locker, including plain old spray paint, that say "DO NOT SPRAY IN EYES OR FACE" with good reason.

Excellent thought. I have some very evil aerosol "brake cleaner" that sprays a stream a longish ways. Hell, bug spray might burn like crazy.

[pbmaise]

If the whole point of this thread is to avoid getting killed while cruising...then most people are missing the boat. By far and wide the most danger is on the boat.

Specifically they are:
The boom
The fuel
Anchoring too close to shore
Sailing too close to reefs and land
Ignoring the weather
Bringing a "guest" aboard who happens to have a boyfriend.

I happen to have a boat with no boom and I use kayaks that don't tempt the locals so much. I have never had a kayak stolen. Paddles yes. Right at the yacht club in front of the guard desk.