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Old 23-03-2011, 17:31   #46
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Re: How many EPIRBS and liferafts are ever used to save lives ?

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And to answer your question, no. I wouldn't decide to drive faster or ride with a drunk driver because I had a seatbelt. That being said, if I were in a speeding or swerving car, I'd feel a lot better with a seatbelt!
I postulate that it is IMPOSSIBLE to be certain of that first statement, because you have not experienced both. If you would not get in a car without a seatbelt, then the difference in acceptable speed for you, logically, is 55-70 mph. I postulate that we are all, logically, emboldened by improved equipment.
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Old 23-03-2011, 17:34   #47
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Re: How many EPIRBS and liferafts are ever used to save lives ?

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My point, as I said, is that taking safety precautions is a means of averting unnecessary risk- not a means to embolden oneself.
Ahhh, you're getting to the question we're asking. Do we know that EPIRBs and liferafts don't actually cause more fatalities (victim and rescuer and neglected innocents) than they prevent by lulling inexperienced or foolhardy mariners into a feeling of security ? How do we know that ?

You and others keep erroneously assuming that I am arguing against the safety devices. I am not.

I actually installed and used shoulderbelts in my car in ~'70, but that is because I didn't trust the other drivers. Do I wear a helmet in the car ... no. Do I wear a helmet when sailing with a boom ... no. Did I wear a helmet on my motorcycles ... yes. Do I wear a helmet on a bicycle ... no.

But back to the question: Do we know that EPIRBs and/or liferafts prevent more accidents than they may be causing ?



-Sven
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Old 23-03-2011, 17:38   #48
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Re: How many EPIRBS and liferafts are ever used to save lives ?

Thinwater,

I suppose that's a fair statement. If that's the case though, by the Sven's and your logic I shouldn't bother to wear a seatbelt at all. If having a seatbelt is the only reason I get in a car that could potentially crash, were that car to actually then crash, my injuries would be the seatbelt's fault! Just like people who venture into dangerous situations that might require a life raft or EPIRB must only be doing so because they have a life raft and EPIRB.

Or, we could just never leave the dock. ...but that's no fun at all.
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Old 23-03-2011, 17:40   #49
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Re: How many EPIRBS and liferafts are ever used to save lives ?

Sven,
We must have posted at the same time. I would say that EPIRBs and life rafts do not actually prevent any accidents at all. Nor would I say, however, that they cause them. Their role is to assist if someone experiences an accident.
Jeff
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Old 23-03-2011, 17:46   #50
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Re: How many EPIRBS and liferafts are ever used to save lives ?

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Sven,
We must have posted at the same time. I would say that EPIRBs and life rafts do not actually prevent any accidents at all. Nor would I say, however, that they cause them. Their role is to assist if someone experiences an accident.
Jeff
Peace.

There is a similar debate about solo diving versus buddy diving. Don't get me started on that one or we'll never get out of here

Thanks to all for all the inputs, no matter what your position was.

Thanks to Thinwater too who grokked what I was getting at.



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Old 23-03-2011, 17:58   #51
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Re: How many EPIRBS and liferafts are ever used to save lives ?

Safety smurf time



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Old 23-03-2011, 18:00   #52
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Re: How many EPIRBS and liferafts are ever used to save lives ?

There are two sayings that come to mind as I read the responses:

Better to have it and not want it, than to want it and not have it.

There are old pilots and there are bold pilots - there are no old, bold pilots.

Best,

John
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Old 23-03-2011, 18:10   #53
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Re: How many EPIRBS and liferafts are ever used to save lives ?

I agree with each of the last 3 posts! Though Sailmonkey, don't get me started on our old nickname for you in college!
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Old 23-03-2011, 18:23   #54
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Re: How many EPIRBS and liferafts are ever used to save lives ?

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Ya know folks,

This is starting to sound like a thread on religion, politics, or firearms. Very few of us make our decisions on EPIRBS, life rafts, wives, etc. based on hard data. We make those decisions based upon our perceptions of the situation, how we were brought up, past experience, hear-say, and so on. While it is interesting to hear different points of view, and if I may say very politely expressed, I doubt anyone's mind is going to be changed. Having said this.......CHARGE!!

Rich

Yep.

There are many things done/mandated etc that when researched prove to be other than what we think or intended.

I have no doubt that epirbs and liferafts save lives.

The question was (if I remember) what are the stats and what is the cost.

This is just a question that can be discussed without the holy being brought up.

For those of you that like this sort of discussion, try reading some of Malcom Gladwell. What you knew or thought you knew will leave you pale and panting, your mind blown. Well, that is what happened to me.
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Old 23-03-2011, 18:30   #55
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Re: How many EPIRBS and liferafts are ever used to save lives ?

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Ahhh, you're getting to the question we're asking. Do we know that EPIRBs and liferafts don't actually cause more fatalities (victim and rescuer and neglected innocents) than they prevent by lulling inexperienced or foolhardy mariners into a feeling of security ? How do we know that ?



-Sven
I will postulate that a lot of men will not be able to go to the Bahamas next season because their wives will not go with them if they don't have a EPIRB and a liferaft. And if MOMA ain't happy................
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Old 23-03-2011, 18:47   #56
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Re: How many EPIRBS and liferafts are ever used to save lives ?

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try reading some of Malcom Gladwell. What you knew or thought you knew will leave you pale and panting, your mind blown. Well, that is what happened to me.
Just bought "Blink: ..." for the Kindle, by him. Thanks for the pointer. If I don't like it you'll hear from me !



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Old 23-03-2011, 19:04   #57
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Re: How many EPIRBS and liferafts are ever used to save lives ?

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I agree with each of the last 3 posts! Though Sailmonkey, don't get me started on our old nickname for you in college!

Ha, and here I was about to type something about well.......bagels. but it was lost.
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Old 23-03-2011, 19:37   #58
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Re: How many EPIRBS and liferafts are ever used to save lives ?

I think few. Say below 1%?

b.
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Old 23-03-2011, 19:46   #59
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Re: How many EPIRBS and liferafts are ever used to save lives ?

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Just bought "Blink: ..." for the Kindle, by him. Thanks for the pointer. If I don't like it you'll hear from me !



-Sven

Don't blame me when your eyes pop out of your head and it keeps shaking.

But maybe you will like being that way.
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Old 24-03-2011, 13:01   #60
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Re: How many EPIRBS and liferafts are ever used to save lives ?

ACR has some rescue stories, both land and water

ACR Survivor Stories
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