How Many EPIRBS and Liferafts Ever Save Lives ?

[Paul Elliott]

Here's my story of accidental PLB triggering: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...tml#post674736 (earlier in this discussion).

Summary: Accidental triggering due to impact. Satphone phone call from Coast Guard. Wrapping PLB in aluminum foil killed the signal. Don't kill the signal unless instructed by the Coast Guard. You need a way to communicate with the Coast Guard, or they may vary well launch a search. If you are concerned about accidental (or deliberate) beacon activation, look into carrying a beacon receiver.

[svWindfall]

Ask yourself that same question as you're bobbing around in the ocean with no help in sight...obviously you've never been in BIG seas or foul waether.

[SailorBill1954]

I knew you were a fellow Coastie after the second sentence. Thanks for shedding more light on a vital piece of safety equipment. I tell my wife / Mate that if anything should go wrong just " flip the switch" and someone will come to you. And I would add that registering and maintaining the info on file is most important. It can all be done online through NOAA ad your leisure. Capt Bill

[Hirophant]

Originally Posted by boasun

IF or when you get the EPIRB, spring for a SART also. This is an emergency Radar Transponder so when S&R comes into your area, it will show up on their X band radar and lead them straight to you.
A minor detail to ease their search for you.

This is one of those situations where wearing a nice big tinfoil hat may have genuine utility....

[waterworldly]

Never ever ever forget that every magazine, article, and most people that never stray far from their home dock will saturate you with "necessary" equiptment articles and advice. I stopped reading many sailing magazines because all of the stories are so dreadful. If you read most of them you would never venture out of familiar waters. Such a shame. HOWEVER, we have witnessed many cruisers using very unsafe practices, so perhaps they should load up on equiptment, because they seem to have little or no common sense. If you put all of the "necesary" stuff on your boat you would never leave, because the boat would be too heavy and you would be BROKE. Just recently I needed to change the battery on my EPIRB, and it was quoted at $250, for a BATTERY. They don't make enough lubricant for these types of transactions.

[bobconnie]

I don't know for sure how many miles Connie and I have logged in the last 30 + years, but we have never had an EPIRB, or a Life raft of the type everyone is speaking of ! Im sure we might have been safer if we had , but it just never was anything we HAD to have ! Now adays we would purchase at least a Epirb with gps for our new boat ! The life raft thing just don't light my fire, Ive seen to many boats abandoned when they were still sea worthy!! I will stay with my boat till theres absoulty no other option left to me Then my dink will have to do along with my ditch bag! I guess Im old fashion, but Ive been thru some BIG storms in my 50+ years at sea and never had to abandon any vessel yet ! Just my 2 cents but We would rather spend the bucks on comfort instead!

[RUSTYNAIL]

Originally Posted by Hirophant

This is one of those situations where wearing a nice big tinfoil hat may have genuine utility....

The tinfoil hat is not a bad idea. Even pots and pans would help an aircraft's radar locate people in a rubber life raft. Most people become a stealth object after they request help, then leave their boat. Sometimes the simplest idea helps. Sailboat masts are very poor reflectors compared to a small radar reflector. If you ditch your sinking boat and go into a raft, grab anything metal (not sharp) or a small radar reflector. Long range rescues usually use commercial ships in the area, and they only have radar capability to locate you, no 121.5 or 406 MHz direction finders if you used an EPIRB. Lights and a portable vhf radio would really help.

[SailorBill1954]

I am truly amazed that some who put themselves forward here as "experienced" sailors are making the point that certain safety equipment does nothing to enhance your chances of survival. I disagree. You can never have enough. That is of course assuming that the safety of your crew is your #1 priority.
As a Captain in the Merchant Marine it has to be mine. And as Captain of my own vessel it is as well. Especially when you consider that my 1st Mate is my wife of 38 years. I have seen too many good men lost due to complacency. And two weeks ago I had to hear of a fellow Captain and a former shipmate falling overboard and lost at sea. None of his crew saw him fall and we will never know what happened. He was a 30 year veteran at sea.
Complacency and apathy can cost you your life or those of the crew you are responsible for. And to think that you and your Mate at 60+ years of age can safely step off a sinking sloop in to a dink is a stretch. How fit are you? It is no easy task especially at night or in any seaway.
I would agree that some of the safety equipment advertised has little practical use. Some are just gadgets. But I would not leave the dock without a lifesling securely fastened to the boat or an EPIRB along with the regulatory safety items and a liferaft. Too many sailors are under the false belief that the inflatable is a dependable life raft.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by SailorBill1954

I am truly amazed that some who put themselves forward here as "experienced" sailors are making the point that certain safety equipment does nothing to enhance your chances of survival. I disagree. You can never have enough. That is of course assuming that the safety of your crew is your #1 priority.

Does nothing? or does very little - and that the money / effort better spent elsewhere.

As a Captain in the Merchant Marine it has to be mine. And as Captain of my own vessel it is as well. Especially when you consider that my 1st Mate is my wife of 38 years. I have seen too many good men lost due to complacency.

And two weeks ago I had to hear of a fellow Captain and a former shipmate falling overboard and lost at sea. None of his crew saw him fall and we will never know what happened. He was a 30 year veteran at sea. Complacency and apathy can cost you your life or those of the crew you are responsible for.

But the difference between a recreational boat and commercial is that the latter does not spend 90% of it's time moored within sight of the shore, in which case a dinghy is very likely the better option as can propel self to shore (and a lot of that time, for many, the evac method will be stepping onto a pontoon!)....rather than having to wait to be rescued.

And to think that you and your Mate at 60+ years of age can safely step off a sinking sloop in to a dink is a stretch. How fit are you? It is no easy task especially at night or in any seaway.

I agree that will be no easy thing - but nor will getting into a liferaft be easy or the evac from the liferaft.....especially if a large commercial ship is involved - with a rope ladder or scramble net.

I would agree that some of the safety equipment advertised has little practical use. Some are just gadgets. But I would not leave the dock without a lifesling securely fastened to the boat or an EPIRB along with the regulatory safety items and a liferaft. Too many sailors are under the false belief that the inflatable is a dependable life raft.

In this thread (and in general on CF) no one says that someone else's choices make them an idiot (well, not usually!) and the choices of everyone (whatever they are) are of interest in the greater pool of knowledge - but they are your choices. "Your" Gadget is "my" essential and vice verce.

Fortunately over here we have no "Regulatory Items" (and therefore have no need for armed Poop inspectors - I know I take a risk by not having da Gubberment checking that I am pooping correctly, but.......so far so good ). YMMV .

IMO too many sailors are under the false belief that a life raft is a dependable get out of jail free card - especially when used with an EPIRB. Not to say that I have anything against anyone having either (or both) - in many respects very sensible.....as long as folk know the limitations of there "Safety" equipment / gadgets - the main one being that nothing cures stupid....no matter the size of the cheque(s) written.

[osirissail]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

Does nothing? or does very little - and that the money / effort better spent elsewhere. . . .

IMO too many sailors are under the false belief that a life raft is a dependable get out of jail free card - especially when used with an EPIRB. Not to say that I have anything against anyone having either (or both) - in many respects very sensible.....as long as folk know the limitations of there "Safety" equipment / gadgets - the main one being that nothing cures stupid....no matter the size of the cheque(s) written.

+1 for a practical perspective on the discussion and a great summation. I have seen too many "stupid" or just plain naive folks taking to the cruising life. Many in boats I wouldn't take out of sight of land or far enough out that I wouldn't feel comfortable swimming back to shore.

No amount of do-hickeys at around a $grand each is going to make you a better sailor/cruiser. Only experience and a healthy amount of common sense and the good sense to not go where there be dragons waiting.

The "herding instant" is alive and well in the cruising world. Groups of boats will head out into questionable or definitely adverse conditions because the think their EPIRB, SARTS, whatever will save their butts and/or all their "buddy boats" will come to their rescue. The perverse part of that is that generally in most situations everybody makes it to the next place even when they had a horrible time doing it. It brings up the old saying "perception is 9/10's of reality."

[RUSTYNAIL]

We all play a game of risk when we leave the dock. We do everything we can to be as safe as possible to increase our chances of a safe enjoyable passage. Still, mother nature can hit you with an unexpected rogue wave that came from 3 time zones away, a heat attack, or a water spot from hell at night. With a properly maintained EPIRB, you will always have your instantaneous 911 connection that doesn't require the vessel's electrical system to be healthy to get you help. My input comes from tracking and dissecting boating rescues for many years. I am only writing to the sailors that would like to take advantage of being quickly rescued when they need help.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by RUSTYNAIL

We all play a game of risk when we leave the dock. We do everything we can to be as safe as possible to increase our chances of a safe enjoyable passage. Still, mother nature can hit you with an unexpected rogue wave that came from 3 time zones away, a heat attack, or a water spot from hell at night. With a properly maintained EPIRB, you will always have your instantaneous 911 connection that doesn't require the vessel's electrical system to be healthy to get you help. My input comes from tracking and dissecting boating rescues for many years. I am only writing to the sailors that would like to take advantage of being quickly rescued when they need help.

Good post.

I would also suggest that that EPIRBs and liferaft discussion is much more pertinent to offshore sailing in GMDSS areas outside of Area 1.



I do carry a liferaft when I go around Vancouver Island, even though I am usually in Area 1, as I do venture outside of it.

Liferafts and EPIRBs may be more relevant to the 3% who actually go offshore.

[SailorBill1954]

News Flash....you do have regulatory items to be kept and maintained aboard a recreational vessel. These include PFD's (life jackets) flares, a horn or other sound making device, fire extinguishers (depending on size of vessel) and in some cases a VHF radio. This last item will be especially important for Dave when he eventually finds himself in distress because he left the dock without those VERY expensive safety items.
The reason these items are regulatory is because too many have lost lives needlessly at sea. Based on the comments here, the Coast Guard will still have a busy schedule ahead of them. Save your money Dave and please stay at the dock where you belong. And try to stay away from FOX news. It's obvious.

[rgscpat]

It would be interesting to try to draw a chart showing which safety equipment is mandatory for recreational boats in different parts of the world -- and then compare that to the generally much stricter standards imposed or recommended by organizations hosting ocean races (in our country, the PHRF and the ISAF/offshore racing council lists that vary with distance offshore and with additions or subtractions to the lists made by the race hosts).

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by rgscpat

It would be interesting to try to draw a chart showing which safety equipment is mandatory for recreational boats in different parts of the world -- and then compare that to the generally much stricter standards imposed or recommended by organizations hosting ocean races (in our country, the PHRF and the ISAF/offshore racing council lists that vary with distance offshore and with additions or subtractions to the lists made by the race hosts).

Here is the Victoria to Maui Race checklist.

http://www.vicmaui.org/pdfs/VM2012%2...0B%20Final.pdf