Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 31-05-2011, 17:04   #406
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 20,226
Images: 2
pirate Re: How Many EPIRBS and Liferafts Ever Save Lives ?

ROTFL..... nice one Meyermm..... Touche...
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2011, 18:59   #407
Registered User
 
psneeld's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Avalon, NJ
Boat: Albin 40 double cabin Trawler
Posts: 1,834
Re: How Many EPIRBS and Liferafts Ever Save Lives ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hillbillylad View Post
Quite so. The point is my concern is for her and her alone as well as the peace of mind of her family.
But indeed aye, one is better than none when all are in the same boat so to speak.
Kinda the wrong approach...

ANYONE's self preservation instinct is the strongest of all...

You survive no matter what...your actions may save the boat or organize the survival situation...all else who survive is gravy....
__________________

__________________
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2012, 13:34   #408
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: San Francisco Bay
Boat: Hunter Legend 40
Posts: 291
Re: How Many EPIRBS and Liferafts Ever Save Lives ?

youre not taking a liferaft? Don't cross that street. Jimmy!!!! don't cross that creek on that log!!!!! Splash.....
__________________
Gary

I'm wet nurse to a last place dead to the neck up ball club and I'm choking to death.
gpshephe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2012, 15:54   #409
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Boston, MA
Boat: Bristol 38.8
Posts: 1,625
Re: How Many EPIRBS and Liferafts Ever Save Lives ?

Since when did the absence of an EPIRB or liferaft ever save a life?
__________________
Curmudgeon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2012, 16:26   #410
Certifiable Refitter/Senior Wannbe
 
Wotname's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: Van DeStat Super Dogger 31'
Posts: 7,336
Re: How Many EPIRBS and Liferafts Ever Save Lives ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
Since when did the absence of an EPIRB or liferaft ever save a life?
Good point although perhaps the absence of a liferaft may have prevented some folk from leaving a perfectly sound (i.e. watertight) vessel when conditions seemed frightful and taking their chances in a "lifesaving device (- liferaft)" that would be far less sound than the vessel they wanted to abandon.
__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2012, 18:08   #411
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Mackay,QLD, Australia
Boat: planning a approx 45ft cat
Posts: 3,651
Images: 3
Re: How Many EPIRBS and Liferafts Ever Save Lives ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
Since when did the absence of an EPIRB or liferaft ever save a life?
Proberbly none but may have saved a few vessels.
__________________
downunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2012, 18:51   #412
Registered User
 
sabray's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Wash DC
Boat: PETERSON 44
Posts: 3,169
Great read from the seventies before epirb. Survive the savage sea. Survived in a raft with assistance from there dinghy. How shut happens I net they would have loved an epirb. When I primarily solo sailed I dud without. Now I often have people / young ones aboard so I carry more safety gear. never mind the bitch duck that was hiding in the coaming and I just through over board/. Are duck eggs any good in a omlette/ six friggin eggs she left.
__________________
sabray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2012, 19:55   #413
Senior Cruiser
 
jackdale's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 5,048
Images: 1
Re: How Many EPIRBS and Liferafts Ever Save Lives ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
Good point although perhaps the absence of a liferaft may have prevented some folk from leaving a perfectly sound (i.e. watertight) vessel when conditions seemed frightful and taking their chances in a "lifesaving device (- liferaft)" that would be far less sound than the vessel they wanted to abandon.
All sailors should read Fastnet Force 10, and commit to memory, "Never jump into a liferaft, step up into it as the boat sinks underneath you."

I do carry a liferaft offshore.
__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Ocean Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203,204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
jackdale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 01:05   #414
Registered User
 
SimonV's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Posts: 1,316
Re: How Many EPIRBS and Liferafts Ever Save Lives ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
All sailors should read Fastnet Force 10, and commit to memory, "Never jump into a liferaft, step up into it as the boat sinks underneath you."

I do carry a liferaft offshore.
"Never" is a big call, and we seam to hear it whenever life rafts are deployed and used. But to say never is totally incorrect, it all depends on the circumstances. I agree there a times it is better to stay with the main vessel til the end but not always.
__________________
Simon

https://svgoodonya.blogspot.com.au/
SimonV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 02:04   #415
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New Mexico, USA
Boat: International Etchells USA 125 Black Magic, Santana 20 475 Ghost, Hobie 33 3100 Bruja, dinghies,
Posts: 1,118
Re: How Many EPIRBS and Liferafts Ever Save Lives ?

Oh goodie, a revived thread. No claim to universal wisdom, just my own opinions and conclusions for our boat, and after reviewing the whole darn thread, here's my takeaway:

- Any one piece of equipment, by itself, is not a magic bullet.
- Would rather rely on the ideas of defense in depth, safety systems, and a balance of preparation, experience, training, seamanship, preventive maintenance, drills/training, and equipment to prevent, mitigate, and survive problems.
- People don't react the same way in emergencies. But forethought, drill, and training can make the reactions more predictable and constructive.


Us: Coastal/inland racer/cruiser, lightweight 33 footer with outboard in motor well, and very few holes in the boat, thank providence. Casual racers, occasional coastal charterers, do a bit of this and that on the water. Plan to do more coastal sailing and racing.

- No life raft. Do have survival suit, wet suits, float coats, inflatables with harnesses, type I and other PFDs, MOB pole, horseshoe, Lifesling, lights, etc.

- Do have EPIRB and PLB (both with GPS and are registered), VHF w DSC/AIS reception, GPS/chartplot, handheld VHFs, a bunch of flares including a couple of in-date SOLAS para. Also have jacklines and dual-length tethers, and the little things like lights, whistles, knives, wood plugs, radar reflector, floating ditch bag, water, emergency VHF antenna, etc.

- ASA classes, local basic boating safety classes, volunteer boating safety instructor training, done some live fire-fighting training (need to get current on first aid/CPR but my son is an EMT/wilderness EMT and would be with us most of the time). Plan to get to a safety seminar with a practical component. Grew up on the water, have done some dumb things, seen lots of other people do dumb things, and hope I've learned from them. Have some basic maintenance and improvisation skills. Duct tape does wonders. It can't fix stupid -- but it can shut stupid's mouth.

- Always a chance to do better, always something new to learn -- which for me is a huge reason I chose sailing as a major life interest.

Thoughts on the original question:
EPIRBS/PLBs have gotten cheap enough to be easy to justify. Their maintenance has also gotten less onerous.

Life rafts on the other hand, are still awfully expensive in the USA. The relatively cheap ones leave much to be desired (single tube? no inflatable floor? minimal ballast? no roof? hard to enter?), and even the more expensive ones are very skimpily equipped. Have you looked closely at some of the "comprehensive survival packages" on them? I would probably rent or buy a raft for an ocean crossing but not even think of it for coastal sailing (within 100 miles offshore in moderate waters). We might carry a dinghy lashed on the deck or in the lazarette, depending upon the type of passage.

A dumb analogy to keep the natives restless:
Buying a fancy piece of safety equipment without thinking carefully about how to use it, without fitting it in with your other equipment, and without and getting training and experience would be like...
carrying guns on board without any training, forethought, or knowledge of the laws, real risks, and consequences in the places where you will be sailing.
__________________
Pat, from the Desert Sea http://desertsea.blogspot.com
rgscpat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 15:37   #416
Senior Cruiser
 
Therapy's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: W Florida
Boat: The Jon boat still, plus a 2007 SeaCat.
Posts: 6,894
Images: 4
Re: How Many EPIRBS and Liferafts Ever Save Lives ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgscpat View Post
Oh goodie, a revived thread. No claim to universal wisdom, just my own opinions and conclusions for our boat, and after reviewing the whole darn thread, here's my takeaway:

- Any one piece of equipment, by itself, is not a magic bullet.
- Would rather rely on the ideas of defense in depth, safety systems, and a balance of preparation, experience, training, seamanship, preventive maintenance, drills/training, and equipment to prevent, mitigate, and survive problems.
- People don't react the same way in emergencies. But forethought, drill, and training can make the reactions more predictable and constructive.


Us: Coastal/inland racer/cruiser, lightweight 33 footer with outboard in motor well, and very few holes in the boat, thank providence. Casual racers, occasional coastal charterers, do a bit of this and that on the water. Plan to do more coastal sailing and racing.

- No life raft. Do have survival suit, wet suits, float coats, inflatables with harnesses, type I and other PFDs, MOB pole, horseshoe, Lifesling, lights, etc.

- Do have EPIRB and PLB (both with GPS and are registered), VHF w DSC/AIS reception, GPS/chartplot, handheld VHFs, a bunch of flares including a couple of in-date SOLAS para. Also have jacklines and dual-length tethers, and the little things like lights, whistles, knives, wood plugs, radar reflector, floating ditch bag, water, emergency VHF antenna, etc.

- ASA classes, local basic boating safety classes, volunteer boating safety instructor training, done some live fire-fighting training (need to get current on first aid/CPR but my son is an EMT/wilderness EMT and would be with us most of the time). Plan to get to a safety seminar with a practical component. Grew up on the water, have done some dumb things, seen lots of other people do dumb things, and hope I've learned from them. Have some basic maintenance and improvisation skills. Duct tape does wonders. It can't fix stupid -- but it can shut stupid's mouth.

- Always a chance to do better, always something new to learn -- which for me is a huge reason I chose sailing as a major life interest.

Thoughts on the original question:
EPIRBS/PLBs have gotten cheap enough to be easy to justify. Their maintenance has also gotten less onerous.

Life rafts on the other hand, are still awfully expensive in the USA. The relatively cheap ones leave much to be desired (single tube? no inflatable floor? minimal ballast? no roof? hard to enter?), and even the more expensive ones are very skimpily equipped. Have you looked closely at some of the "comprehensive survival packages" on them? I would probably rent or buy a raft for an ocean crossing but not even think of it for coastal sailing (within 100 miles offshore in moderate waters). We might carry a dinghy lashed on the deck or in the lazarette, depending upon the type of passage.

A dumb analogy to keep the natives restless:
Buying a fancy piece of safety equipment without thinking carefully about how to use it, without fitting it in with your other equipment, and without and getting training and experience would be like...
carrying guns on board without any training, forethought, or knowledge of the laws, real risks, and consequences in the places where you will be sailing.
Great post!
__________________
Who knows what is next.
Therapy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 16:08   #417
Registered User
 
susanna reiter's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: New Mexico and our S/V is in Fort Pierce..hope to be there soon and sailing.
Boat: S/V"KAREN", Pearson Alberg 35. an achilles dingy, 2 kyaks.
Posts: 202
Re: How Many EPIRBS and Liferafts Ever Save Lives ?

rgscpat has it right......you don't need it unless you do..and when you do, you better have schooled yourself ( and hopefully your crew) on HOW to use it properly . Footnote on EPIRBS : Be sure they are functioning properly before you take off and if you don't want to expend the money on one for that voyage/passage...BoatUS rents them..
__________________
susanna reiter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 21:11   #418
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: CHARLESTON, SC
Boat: IRWIN 10/4
Posts: 58
Re: How Many EPIRBS and Liferafts Ever Save Lives ?

I can't share every EPIRB rescue with you, but I tracked every 406 case in the U.S. areas for 10 years... Every year things have gotten better locating EPIRBs, and being in a raft obviously helps. 406 beacons continue to get less expensive. Also "EPIRBs" with gps get rescue personnel on scene much quicker. Offshore cruisers should consider getting some kind of 406 beacon if they go farther out than they want to swim back... Even cases where people hit jetties when they were almost home can become fatal due to a lack of communication. An EPIRB can get you millions of dollars worth of air craft over you quickly, saving you and our country a lot of search time and money.. It's a free world, but your situation may cost others a lot when you need help. .
__________________
RUSTYNAIL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 22:40   #419
Registered User
 
SailorBill1954's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 11
I went aft 0dark30 to check the condition of our GPIRB on a Feb night in the Bering Sea near 57 N and 168 W. There was a coat of ice on the whole unit. I decided to chip the ice off with a welders hammer. It served to depress the Activation button and the strobe was activated meaning it was transmitting. I took the unit into the Captains head hoping the signal would be hidden by the steel superstructure and saving me the embarrassment of the obvious accidental alarm. By the time I got it defrosted the Sat phone was ringing with the angry voice of the Ops Mgr in Seattle telling me that the Coast Guard in Kodiak was ready to launch a C130 in 5 min if they did not get confirmation of a false distress call. After verifying the safety of my ship and crew we carried on with fishing ops. Upon arrival to my S/V Spirit in Portsmouth, RI I spent north of $1000 for the best GPIRB money could buy. COSPAS works.....use it to protect your crew.
__________________
SailorBill1954 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2012, 07:33   #420
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: CHARLESTON, SC
Boat: IRWIN 10/4
Posts: 58
Re: How Many EPIRBS and Liferafts Ever Save Lives ?

It only takes one 406 MHz burst after a quick warm up in the EPIRB for the COSPAS/SARSAT geosynchronous satellite above you to get your EPIRB's signal. It's that good. Most new EPIRBs with gps that have a good view of the gps satellites will already have your lat/long on the first message burst. The 406 signal is a 5 watt burst and it's hard to block. Once your beacon is activated, expect call outs, and someone is warming up engines somewhere to search for you if they don't get a confirmation of a false activation. If you don't have gps in your EPIRB, it may take some time (0-102 minutes) for the low earth orbiting satellites to pass and give a general position. The test function has an inverted signal so they know it's not a real distress. Cruisers are one of the best groups of experienced and sharp boaters to get this word to the boating public to help reduce false activation sorties. Hundreds of people and their boats have been saved quickly with 406 beacons. I've sailed on ships to the north and south poles, and I can just picture you knocking ice off the EPIRB. Wow, I hate cold wx.
__________________

__________________
RUSTYNAIL is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Dream Lives On Kay Koudele Meets & Greets 7 25-01-2010 11:28
New chapter in our lives bayoubouy General Sailing Forum 3 18-04-2008 06:26
EPIRBs stacy Marine Electronics 3 24-02-2008 10:26
liferafts nalani Health, Safety & Related Gear 1 28-08-2007 02:42
EPIRBS SASSY Health, Safety & Related Gear 0 31-03-2006 09:31



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 16:09.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.