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Old 04-04-2011, 11:43   #181
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Re: How Many EPIRBS and Liferafts ever Save Lives ?

It would be prudent to figure out how much water your boat can hold before its actually "sinking", and mark a line on the bulkhead. This would probably be several feet deep for most cruising boats. It could really ease your mind when/if you can see how fast the water is rising and make a rough guess of how much time you have before you're doomed (at which point you could launch the liferaft )
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Old 04-04-2011, 12:00   #182
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Re: How Many EPIRBS and Liferafts ever Save Lives ?

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Originally Posted by callmecrazy View Post
It would be prudent to figure out how much water your boat can hold before its actually "sinking", and mark a line on the bulkhead.
Generally right but practically the water may be sloshing around and you may find it difficult to judge how much of it there is.

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Old 04-04-2011, 12:35   #183
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Re: How Many EPIRBS and Liferafts ever Save Lives ?

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Originally Posted by Viking Sailor View Post

(...)

It is always crew first, ship second. The highest duty the skipper has is to keep his crew alive.

(...)
I think this is asking the cart to pull the horse.

It is VERY difficult to take care of the crew once the ship is gone. I would ALWAYS try to save the ship in the first place. I believe that as soon as you go into the liferaft, you chances of coming out alive DROP. I believe that abandoned ships have been found with provisions / water onboard while their crews perished in liferafts.

As far as your storytelling goes: the person on watch would look inside every now and then, NOT? This is one of the standing orders on our boat: look around, look at the rigging and sails, look inside. Then, how about a small device called bilge water alarm (15 USD in the local shop). Would such simple measures not make sense to you?

I am (personally, biased, and IMHO) all in favour of having all possible rescue equipment onboard. However, IMHO your post shows the mindset as described above in Estarzinger's post. And I will subscribe to Estarzinger's view that such a mindset may in fact turn out against you.

A most interesting subject and would benefit greatly from seeing safety as something more than packing one's family into a liferaft and firing up the EPIRB.

I said it above but I will quote myself again: liferafts and EPIRBs are NOT safety. Liferafts and EPIRBs are rescue equipment.

Save your ship and maybe you will not have to save your soul.

b.
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Old 04-04-2011, 12:50   #184
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Re: How Many EPIRBS and Liferafts ever Save Lives ?

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Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
Thanks Gord.
I should have been very specific in my wording huh?
I meant 2" of "unknown origin" water.
I think you're conversing with Wotname.

Notwithstanding, I have never awakened with 2" of water over the cabin sole, from any source, known or not.

The original owner of our last boat sailed her across Lake Superior (Soo St Marie to Th. Bay) just so.
Pump dry. Go to sleep, with hand hanging down near sole. Wake when hand wet. Arise & pump dry. Repeat as necessary.
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Old 04-04-2011, 15:35   #185
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Re: How Many EPIRBS and Liferafts ever Save Lives ?

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I think you're conversing with Wotname.


.
That was a joke.

He answered a question I asked you. ( I said "Gord", not "has anybody")

Glad to hear you stayed dry with a normal heart rate.
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Old 04-04-2011, 15:51   #186
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Re: How Many EPIRBS and Liferafts ever Save Lives ?

This is helpful because Im running through the procedure.
Water is pouring into boat. I start pulling up floorboards. floorboards wont come up they've swollen in place. get a hammer start smashing floorboards no luck theyre tough so give up. go grab the ditch bag get the raft from the lazzarette. the raft pull cord gets hung on a hose clamp inflating the raft in the cockpit. finally free the raft and shove it over but it gets loose and is bobbing away. get the flare gun from the ditch kit and shoot raft. go below to find the epirb. As i step down to grab it I fall through where the one floorboard i was able to remove was, busting my ankle. As aI fall I grab the Epirb which absorbs some of the impact from the fall but is now in pieces in the bilge. While trying to get the pieces out of the bilge I see the bronze cap that fits on the engine water intake. screw the cap back on. give up on sailing for the weekend and hop back on the dock.
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Old 04-04-2011, 16:09   #187
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Re: How Many EPIRBS and Liferafts ever Save Lives ?

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Originally Posted by sabray View Post
Water is pouring into boat. . . . give up on sailing for the weekend and hop back on the dock.
Thanks . . . that gave me a good laugh

On our prior boat I used to think the cabin sole had a biblical heritage (think bread and wine) because every year it would swell and stick and every year I would plane the edges down.
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Old 04-04-2011, 16:43   #188
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Skipper's call...

My felling is that it's a matter of risk assessment.

Sailing where your dinghy will get you to safety, no brainer.

Sailing past reliable weather forecasts, VHF range or past a dinghy ride carry an epirb.

Sailing past "rescue in a few hours" carry a liferaft.

As for when to press the button it has to be Skipper's call.

Me, I'd press it sooner, rather than later, but then it's a cheap boat.
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Old 04-04-2011, 17:03   #189
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Re: How Many EPIRBS and Liferafts ever Save Lives ?

So that others do not think all the stories fabricated (by others) above are fabricated I can tell you that a panicked crew pressed the 'wrong' VHF button on one of the cruising boats down here in Canary Islands last year.

Rest assured the skipper got charged by local authorities. It was something like 50k as far as I remember.

Some time ago a Polish boat got into bad weather in the Baltic. The crew decided the skipper is "doing nothing" and they pressed the 'wrong' button. They got rescued. All except for the one that got crunched between the boat and the ship that came to the rescue. That was actually the skipper. The boat was found on the beach a week later, pretty intact ban the missing masts that got broken during the rescue.

More happy-go-rescue-me stories? Well, just google them out yourselves.

b.
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Old 04-04-2011, 17:13   #190
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Re: How Many EPIRBS and Liferafts ever Save Lives ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
Did you ever wake up with 2" of water over the cabin sole?

If so, did you make a call on the radio first or go looking for the leak first?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
That was a joke.

He answered a question I asked you. ( I said "Gord", not "has anybody")

Glad to hear you stayed dry with a normal heart rate.
Ahh... No, you addressed the question to "you" and while you did have Gord's quote preceding the question, this did not directly indicate the question was addressed only to Gord, although it may have suggested it.

This being a open forum, I elected to add my response to your question (again as the use of "one" in place of "you" is not common on CF.

My apologies to anyone who may have been offended by my post re answering the above question.
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Old 04-04-2011, 17:19   #191
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Re: How Many EPIRBS and Liferafts ever Save Lives ?

Just FYI. The OSR cat 1 requirement (Which represents a 'best practice') is that:

"4.40.4 Each raft shall be capable of being got to the lifelines or launched within 15 seconds."


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Old 04-04-2011, 17:33   #192
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Re: How Many EPIRBS and Liferafts ever Save Lives ?

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Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
Ahh... No, you addressed the question to "you" and while you did have Gord's quote preceding the question, this did not directly indicate the question was addressed only to Gord, although it may have suggested it.

This being a open forum, I elected to add my response to your question (again as the use of "one" in place of "you" is not common on CF.

My apologies to anyone who may have been offended by my post re answering the above question.

Like the liferaft thing. There are different interpretations (opinions?) of how we think our brains work re: "consuming" safety items.

When I use a CF quote it is to that quote I am typing. If not, no quote.

Maybe a poll.

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Old 04-04-2011, 17:38   #193
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Re: How Many EPIRBS and Liferafts ever Save Lives ?

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
I believe that as soon as you go into the liferaft, you chances of coming out alive DROP. I believe that abandoned ships have been found with provisions / water onboard while their crews perished in liferafts.
b.
I am taking this opportunity to insert that old saw oft heard from old salt's lips;

NEVER step DOWN to the liferaft....

That neatly avoids the scenario Barnakiel describes.
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Old 04-04-2011, 17:41   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel
So that others do not think all the stories fabricated (by others) above are fabricated I can tell you that a panicked crew pressed the 'wrong' VHF button on one of the cruising boats down here in Canary Islands last year.

Rest assured the skipper got charged by local authorities. It was something like 50k as far as I remember.

Some time ago a Polish boat got into bad weather in the Baltic. The crew decided the skipper is "doing nothing" and they pressed the 'wrong' button. They got rescued. All except for the one that got crunched between the boat and the ship that came to the rescue. That was actually the skipper. The boat was found on the beach a week later, pretty intact ban the missing masts that got broken during the rescue.

More happy-go-rescue-me stories? Well, just google them out yourselves.

b.
None of this has any statistical effect on the value of safety aids and the rescues they helped to safety.

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Old 09-04-2011, 06:16   #195
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Re: How Many EPIRBS and Liferafts ever Save Lives ?

Everyone is thinking about the yacht sinking, don't forget it could also be fire you need to escape from.

barnakiel's suggestion for a bilge alarm is a good one and I have had a boat saved when the alarm went off following a cooling hose splitting.

On our yacht we have a small auto bilge pump in the engine compartment. It pumps into the cockpit so those on watch get wet feet, which should edit a response even during a night watch. Whilst it's only a small pump and won't save the boat, if it gives enough warning to get the other pumps going it will have done its job.

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