How Do Couples Cruisers Fall Off Boats?

[weavis]

Originally Posted by boatman61

If solo yes.. but then thats preferable to being dragged along at 5kts+ hoping the wind dies so the release of drag allows me to maybe crawl back aboard.
How dya wanna die..

Lol.
My tethers, different lengths for different jobs, are a pain in the patouche to choose from, actually would prevent exiting the vessel.

However, it's not as simple as choosing how to die, its more about minimising the risk of an accident. An accident is not a planned for event. (unless the insurance payout is worth it.)

In bad weather, clipping on will prevent a slip from becoming a tragedy. I have found out to my horror that my dexterity has lessened with age, and a couple of times the short tether actually kept me upright when the once easy movement was no longer easy.

I would miss you if your shed your mortal coil by a preventable accident.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by weavis

Lol.
My tethers, different lengths for different jobs, are a pain in the patouche to choose from, actually would prevent exiting the vessel.

However, it's not as simple as choosing how to die, its more about minimising the risk of an accident. An accident is not a planned for event. (unless the insurance payout is worth it.)

In bad weather, clipping on will prevent a slip from becoming a tragedy. I have found out to my horror that my dexterity has lessened with age, and a couple of times the short tether actually kept me upright when the once easy movement was no longer easy.

I would miss you if your shed your mortal coil by a preventable accident.

Riding motorbikes helps maintain and keep the 'think ahead' process sharp because one is so much more vulnerable than the guy in the metal box texting or playing with his music machine.. you learn to look not just at the car in front but 5 cars ahead and read possibilities..
Same applies to boats.. Situational awareness rules.
Where your faffing about clipping and unclipping to get to what you want to do I am likely to be on my way back, job done.
Know your boat in every way down to how she moves.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I was at Brunswick Landing Marina at night about midnight when someone started pounding on my boat, I came out and the old man across from us had fallen in and his wife was pounding on my boat.
We had a Hell of a time getting him out, I grabbed my Life-sling and that kept him afloat, Brunswick Firemen showed up and we winched him aboard, which I was afraid to do as that thin line could hurt him. He had a Medical problem and didn’t have full use of his legs.

But several grown men had a heck of a time getting him aboard, in a Marina. It would have been a hopeless cause in a seaway, he would have drowned surely.
This was an old wooden Trawler, the dinghy crane broke and of course we had no Halyard etc.

Good and sobering example. My view is, if you fall off the moving boat, you’re dead. This is why the only boat rule we have is: Stay On The Boat.

Even thought we have a lot of the safety gear, including the lifesling. We have a block & tackle ready for deployment, and we’ve practiced (at bit) on recovery, I know I would have a very hard time getting my spouse back on board if she was unable to assist. She would be faced with a near impossibility trying to my fat ass back on board.

Don’t Fall Off!

[boatman61]

I should add.. I do carry tethers and jackets for crew and encourage their use if conditions deteriorate.. most have lived a much more sedentary life style than I have so life and movement at sea is not so easy.. instinctive stiffening of the legs to resist movements instead of flexing and going with the flow and other land instincts dominate.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

She would be faced with a near impossibility trying to my fat ass back on board.

Don’t Fall Off!

O lord.. A missed photo opp because of needing all hands to assist..

Made me larf

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by weavis

O lord.. A missed photo opp because of needing all hands to assist..

Hmmm, I might just enjoy that … the all hands thing, not the going overboard .

Brings to mind a time I got flagged for an additional security check at the airport. The nice fellow explained I could either go through the x-ray machine and be done in a second, or I could opt for the manual pat down. I said:

“I’d like the pat down. Maybe we’ll both enjoy it ”

The guard looked at me in disgust and just walked away. I was somewhat both pleased, and also disappointed

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Kelkara

But I don't want to not fall overboard 9/10 times ... I demand 10/10.

Sometimes I want to go forward on the lee side, and it would be nice to feel secure doing that without tacking ... sometimes downwind the boat is rolling, so I'm on the high-low-high-low side. Sometimes the boat is on a level keel and a big passing wake will seemingly fling the boat both ways at once.

From my climbing background, unless my tether is taut then it has too much slack to comfortably let go with both hands ... this one hand for the boat mantra is nonsense ... almost every time I go forward the boat demands two hands to get the job done. Maybe it's a newbie thing and once I get a bit more experience I'll get more comfortable ... but for now once I can figure out how to mount one that i can clip from the cockpit, my boat is getting a centre-line jackline.

But I mostly sail solo, so I don't belong on this thread ... carry on.

You never did any lead climbing with big runouts on manky gear? You never had a buddy tell you "this would be a good time not to fall?"


I think some have missed my point on the center jackline. A center jackline, IMO, makes it MORE likely to slide off to leeward, since the lee rail is closer. The more likely fall is better protected.


I've been using jacklines for a long time, and I've clipped both windward side and centerline.


The best stratagy is to stay low, and then clip short with a second tether once you get where you are going. In the Clipper story two men were washed off. One of them clipped short to the pulpit and was able to scramble back aboard in moments. As a general rule, people are not washed off when they are moving, because they are holding on and they are paying attention to the motion of the boat and the waves. It is when they stop to work, with both hands, that they are at risk. So clip off when working.

[thinwater]

I'm guessing the original question--how does a single person recover another--is played out.

[boatman61]

I have seen a lot of ideas here but.. the truth is most do their MOB drills in benign conditions, great for practising getting back to the victim, then its 'bring them aboard at the stern' or cockpit.
To my mind the safest and best place is midships using either the spinnaker line with its tail led to a winch or, if you dont have that use the topping lift.
The stern is very dangerous as anyone who has had to go under to free a prop when the sea is less than calm can tell you, thats a lot of weight going up and down which can break collar bones and split skulls.
Midships just aft of the mast is the area of least movement and, far enough away from the prop to allow use of the engine to aid holding position.
Also.. cruisers practice with fenders, the RNLI practice with heavy life sized dummies.. they recover midships.
Just my 0.0000001 centimes.

[model 10]

Originally Posted by thinwater

I'm guessing the original question--how does a single person recover another--is played out.

We were cruising inside the reef of Belize and I dropped a flip flop into the water. I suggested my wife jump in after it and she did. She is a good swimmer so this seemed like fun. It started to be not so fun pretty quick. I would bear down on her and she would dodge the bow and I would miss her. This happened several times. I tossed the life sling but the line caught in the swim ladder and and only trailed the boat by 10'. I didn't want to start the engine with all the line in the water. Now she was getting a little worried. We were towing the dinghy, finally she caught it but could not get in and I could not get the boat to come to a full stop. I ended up getting into the dinghy and pulling her in.
As stupid as all that sounds, it was a good learning experience and I got my flip flop back.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by boatman61

I have seen a lot of ideas here but.. the truth is most do their MOB drills in benign conditions, great for practising getting back to the victim, then its 'bring them aboard at the stern' or cockpit.
To my mind the safest and best place is midships using either the spinnaker line with its tail led to a winch or, if you dont have that use the topping lift.
The stern is very dangerous as anyone who has had to go under to free a prop when the sea is less than calm can tell you, thats a lot of weight going up and down which can break collar bones and split skulls.
Midships just aft of the mast is the area of least movement and, far enough away from the prop to allow use of the engine to aid holding position.
Also.. cruisers practice with fenders, the RNLI practice with heavy life sized dummies.. they recover midships.
Just my 0.0000001 centimes.

Agreed. But that leaves three questions:


1. Was the other crew at the wheel, nearby but doing something else, or below? In the first case a quick stop works, but the others are more complicated. Spotting while turning the boat aint' easy.
2. If the MOB was tethered and the crew cannot get them over the rail, how do you move them to a hoisting location or attach the line? I know how I would do it, but what say others? Plenty of strong crews have failed at this.
3. If they are free in the water, how do you attach the line? For starters, a spin shackle is hard to use with one hand, and second, the MOB may be unresponsive. I've seen folks really, really struggle with this. It's not like you can put a man in the water to help. Life sling is an option, if they can swim, but getting in one if the boat is moving is much harder than it seems.



The challenge is that you are alone.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Agreed. But that leaves three questions:


1. Was the other crew at the wheel, nearby but doing something else, or below? In the first case a quick stop works, but the others are more complicated. Spotting while turning the boat aint' easy.
2. If the MOB was tethered and the crew cannot get them over the rail, how do you move them to a hoisting location or attach the line? I know how I would do it, but what say others? Plenty of strong crews have failed at this.
3. If they are free in the water, how do you attach the line? For starters, a spin shackle is hard to use with one hand, and second, the MOB may be unresponsive. I've seen folks really, really struggle with this. It's not like you can put a man in the water to help. Life sling is an option, if they can swim, but getting in one if the boat is moving is much harder than it seems.



The challenge is that you are alone.

To the first, tie the spinnaker line to the tether using a bowline then start cranking the winch... the bowline works its way along the tether as the weight comes on from the body raising them enough to help themselves.. if unconciious it raises them enough for you to keep lifting over the guard rails.
If they went under, then you take the topping lift and secure it to the harness, release the tether and spinnaker line, hoist till you can swing them inboard..
A free floater is much harder if unconscious and unable to take a line.. tactics would be dictated by conditions approaching under motor or using sail then hove to technique and there is no hard and fast plan.

[Kelkara]

Originally Posted by thinwater

You never did any lead climbing with big runouts on manky gear? You never had a buddy tell you "this would be a good time not to fall?"

Of course I have, but that's like having the skipper tell you as you go forward that there's no pin in the jackline shackle ... the line might as well not be there at all, until you reach a secure "hard point".

I think some have missed my point on the center jackline. A center jackline, IMO, makes it MORE likely to slide off to leeward, since the lee rail is closer. The more likely fall is better protected.

OK ... I'll agree with that ... iff the jackline/tether allows you to go over either rail ... but properly set up neither rail should be close enough to go over ... that's the arrangement I'm looking for ... but my boat isn't very big, a tether to a centre line can be pretty short.

But slightly more on topic ... the last time I was swimming by the boat I tried to see if I could climb back on board (to see if I could without having the ladder deployed) ... even on a 27ft boat the toe-rail was a stretch to reach and finally getting on deck was a hideous struggle ... would have been marginal at best if the boat was being uncooperative or I was struggling with hypothermia. Climbing up the windvane at the stern was easier but not easy, but that would be a no-go in any seas ... I do keep a back-up rope-ladder ready to deploy with a string that can be reached from the water, but when I tried it ... the sun rotted string broke before the knots released, and I had to cut the ladder down with a knife (new stronger cord now in place), but the ladder is there in case I fall in at anchor (with a knife?) it too is too far aft to be much use in a big sea.

I was recently watching some kayakers about a mile offshore in significantly choppy conditions, and although they seemed very competent, my mind went through the "what-if" scenarios should they get into trouble ... one thing that came to mind is that to assist a MOB climbing aboard at the cockpit I would probably want to cut away the weather-cloth so that I could lower a loop of rope (jib sheet?) attached to a cleat/winch to be used as a step, and get them aboard below the lifeline. I have less than 3ft freeboard, so standing on a step just below the waterline their waist will be almost at the rail from where it should be possible to wriggle them aboard, whereas hauling someone over the lifeline with the weathercloth in place would be much more difficult ... that all assumes a fully able victim beside the boat.

But for someone less able ... I currently have no plan, and read threads like this with interest.

[hpeer]

Sorry if this has been linked up thread. Worth a read.

https://www.ussailing.org/wp-content...se-History.pdf

Because of this we have sewn crotch straps into our auto inflate PDFs. A couple of years ago there was a fellow who lost his wife up here. She went over, he got to her, but could not get her onboard. She literally slipped through his fingers. Heart breaking story.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Sorry if this has been linked up thread. Worth a read.

https://www.ussailing.org/wp-content...se-History.pdf

Because of this we have sewn crotch straps into our auto inflate PDFs. A couple of years ago there was a fellow who lost his wife up here. She went over, he got to her, but could not get her onboard. She literally slipped through his fingers. Heart breaking story.

The other lesson is that I bet she was reaching up to help. Without crotch straps, once some one gets you, you NEED to keep your arms down. Kinna obvious.