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Old 15-06-2012, 08:41   #31
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

Footnote.: Noonsite reports that the Chandlers, the English couple recently released by the Somali Pirates after 388 days of captivity when relatives raised .5 million pounds...got their s/v back too and are planning to resume their retirement cruise ASAP as they refit their beloved 38 foot sailboat... ya gotta love the undaunted indefatigable spirit of the Brits !!! Cheers !
Other captives however, a couple from South Africa, remain in pirate hands and the Union of South Africa refuses to assist in their release.
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Old 15-06-2012, 09:03   #32
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobconnie View Post
No one, I repete No One, Has the right to board your vessel without your permission! Personaly they would never gotten close enough for a hand gun to be any good for them !! A 10 gauge flare gun from world war 2 would have sunk there panga or what ever ya want to call it !! from 40 yards away !! and cleared ther deck if I so wanted to!! I don't like to carry the things I do carry but the world makes me do It !! No one will hold a gun to my head or my wifes head anytime I can keep them from it !! Leave no witness, and sail away!! to bad so sad another lost fisherman!! thats my 2 cents !!
Law enforcement has the right to board without your permission.
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Old 15-06-2012, 11:03   #33
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

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Originally Posted by CSY Man View Post
Honduras is the country with the highest rate of murder in the world.

Life is cheap, not a good place for a sailing vacation and I have no idea why anybody would go there then act surprised when they get robbed by gun point...
+1

Have never been to the Carribean, but even I know that Honduras has "issues" with crime.....and whilst that would not neccessarily put me off ever visiting, I like to think that some advance thought would go into a few "what ifs".

10 Miles further out and odds are they would not have had a problem - if you don't know how freindly the natives are, don't turn up in their back yard.........in a cooking pot - loaded with garnish .
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Old 15-06-2012, 11:07   #34
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

DOL.....yah got a good point !
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Old 15-06-2012, 11:11   #35
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
+1

Have never been to the Carribean, but even I know that Honduras has "issues" with crime.....and whilst that would not neccessarily put me off ever visiting, I like to think that some advance thought would go into a few "what ifs".

10 Miles further out and odds are they would not have had a problem - if you don't know how freindly the natives are, don't turn up in their back yard.........in a cooking pot - loaded with garnish .
give them a few years and they will be using motherships........send in the airstrikes now!!
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Old 15-06-2012, 11:25   #36
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pirate Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
Excuse me, but I am NOT sorry they reported this TERRIBLE incident. Brush fire? We need to know about these events! There are no perfect responses, and clearly the response they made worked well. You weren't there.

Armchair quarterbacking is so easy.
The reference to the brush fire has to do with the whole guns aboard boats or the different methods of defending oneself from pirates and the debate that arises from that issue, not about the reporting of the incident. As for armchair quarterbacking, I work in Nigeria at pirate central, so I may know something about what I speak.
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Old 15-06-2012, 11:41   #37
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

A.V.O.I.D.

Spend your freedom credits in nice countries.

b.
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Old 15-06-2012, 12:22   #38
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

My gut reaction is to resist. My brain has conveyed to me that staying away from 3rd world countries is a proper notion. I was thinking about going to Europe via the red sea but, perhaps not. If you have 11000 in cash and valuables on board perhaps that amount is not worth the consequences of a shoot out.

As to the flare gun at 40 yards lets hope that the first round hits! Also most Pacific nations insist that you give your firearms up when you anchor, so the whole thing about having a go is a mute point. How do you prove that the dead guys meant you any harm at 40 yards etc. Who's side will the "law" be on. The Mega rich and well loved Brits or Yanks? or the poor local fisherman trying to make a living who was just asking for a little water?

I think the victim here escaped a violent and terrifying attack with some good judgement. .

Lastly very few of us would think of driving into a rough and poor neighborhood with a crap load of money and valuables in our open and very expensive car. We would be very foolish to do so. But in essence is that not what we are doing when we sail our beautiful boats into poor areas of the world? I am not excusing or trying to diminish the violent behavior, just that my only surprise is it does not happen more often.
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Old 15-06-2012, 13:44   #39
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

Everyone seems worried about their wife. If you were standing in front of my wife while she has her 12 gauge you had better worry about yourself. As for me you are going to have a hole in one side and out the other in your engine and it will be starting a fire along the way.
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Old 15-06-2012, 13:46   #40
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

I have one of those flare guns on board, it came with the boat,
I have flares that it shoots,

Its supposed to fire a flare into the sky, I dont know, I have never fired it,

A few questions about it from people who have fired one of these flare guns,

How much flame, explosion, flare, heat, fire, Etc, do they produce,

Would it burn a hole in a boat coming along side yours,

Would it have enough flame and smoke to distract people in the boat,

Would it put the people in the boat in danger of sinking their boat,

Is it a very big flare or just a small bright light that it puts out,

The chances of some one on a small boat being able to shoot at you accurately is very slim,
So you would certainly be able to fire a few of these flares into their boat as they where bobbing around trying to grab hold of the side of your boat,

Even throwing ordinary flares into their boat beside yours, would certainly upset their apple cart,

It would certainly create confusion on their part, If not put them in a serious case of sinking their own boat,

Put your self in their shoes, You want to rob this boat, First you have to get onto it,

Your in a wildly bobbing boat, you have to grab hold of the boat your boarding, You have a gun in your hand,

Your not very steady, The people on the boat are throwing flares at you, If not shooting flares at you,
Is your boat on fire from the flares, Has one of those flares hit you,

I have seen them fire off flares at soccer matches, on the ground, they release a lot of smoke and flames,
People certainly move away form them,

Your on a solid boat, its usually pretty steady compared to a bobbing boat,

The pirate boat is only a few feet away from yours, I carry about six flares of different kinds,

They would get the lot as fast as I could release them, Starting with the ones from the flare gun, fired straight at the person standing up trying to board my boat,

Then throwing the rest into their boat, Usually they have petrol driven boats, not diesel, so their risk of explosion is extremely high, leaky fuel lines etc, They are not well maintained boats like we operate,

I never thought of using my flare gun or flares in this way before,
I dont carry firearms, and I was always thinking of what I could do in the event of a pirate attack other than not going to a pirate area,

I just had a hammer handy, as they come onto my vessel, I smack them with the hammer as they try to board,
I am standing solidly on my boat, they are leaping all over the place,

Hold on to some thing solid near the transom where they are trying to board, keep your hammer concealed till you need to actually use it,

Theres not much they can do about it as they are trying to grab a hold and not end up in the water as they try to get from their boat onto mine,

Think about how you get from your dinghy onto your boat at anchor,
Then think about if your boat is doing 7 knots and your trying to get onto it, It gets a bit difficult,

They dont expect to be attacked as they board your boat filled with very rich people who dont know how to fight back,

I worked all my life to buy my boat, I wont let some scum bag try to take it off me,

And I dont care if they are poor and underpriveleged or some other wank term used to make a thief sound good or deserving,

End of rant, You can jump on me now,
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Old 15-06-2012, 16:30   #41
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Carrying any form of firearm ( and many countries would ban a mil spec flare gun) in my opinion is a waste of time. Chances are you will not have it to hand ,(b) you will not know approaching crafts intentions and (c) after they play their hand it requires you to retrieve a firearm and possibility start a firefight with your wife in the middle.

Nope doesn't work.

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Old 15-06-2012, 16:36   #42
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

A nightmare in Nicaragua
We are four sailing yachts who have been see-sawing the waves together
for the last 2 years and 12000 miles visiting 30+ countries in Europe,
Africa, south and central America and the Caribbean. Most of the time
the authorities were welcoming and courteous, but what happened to us in
Nicaragua is worth a story to be told to warn people thinking of
visiting this country.

We left Cayman on the morning of June the second 2012, bound for Panama.
The weather forecast made us chose a route which brought us close the
costs of Honduras and Nicaragua. We had also investigated the
immigration regulations (including Noonsite) for Nicaragua as a possible
stopover in case of unforeseen situations. As we sailed down the
Nicaraguan cost all 4 yachts had developed some problems which warranted
a pit-stop to limit the possible breakages in the next 350 miles to
Panama. In addition the crew of the mono-hulls would have liked to have
a good night sleep in calm waters. We decided to turn in at El Bluff. As
we approached the entrance we (the only fully fluent Spanish speaking
crew among the four yachts) called the port authorities on our hand held
VHF, as the replacement for our failing fixed VHF was impounded by the
customs in Havana (see separate story). The port captain did not respond
to our multiple calls before we had passed the first red boy in the
entrance channel. We felt this was quit normal as most marinas are using
hand held VHFs and do not hear us behind the hills or other obstacles.
We later learned that they do not have hand-held VHF, but a powerful one
with a huge mast on the top of the hill which can cover at least 18
miles out at sea. So why had he not answered before we were in the
channel? We answered his questions on last port of call and the next,
etc. He told us to proceed until the port. When we arrived in front of
the port we told them about our requirement for depth, draft of the
mono-hulls, and that it was only a technical stopover for 24 hours. Due
to the draft requirement the port captain sent out a barque to guide us
to a mooring, as a larger cargo ship which had been turning around in
front of the entrance was about to come in. He told us that we had to do
a full international entrance clearance as we had not called them on the
VHF 72 hours head (= 500 miles at our speed) and that we had not
declared technical problems before we entered the channel, which they
consider as inland waterways. Hence we had violated the laws of the
country. We were told later that we could also have done a declaration
by internet, but non of the 15+ officials we met were able to tell us
where on the internet you could do such a declaration. The tone of the
voice of the port captain declaring our violation of the laws made use
request further information what a full procedure involved, including
any costs. After his explanation which included 135 USD in fees and a
lot of time waisted, see below for full details, we discussed between us
and considered leaving again straight away, without doing any repairs or
going ashore. When we told him about our preference to leave, were told
that this was not possible as we had violated the laws of the country
and our options were to proceed with full immigration or prison plus
fines! We were now hostages of the Nicaraguan government, with a
declared ransom of 540 USD! As some of the crews would not take the
chance to be shot at if we just turned around a left, we told him that
we felt taken hostage and chose the least of two evils, full
immigration. After they had processed the cargo ship an old barque with
8 people on board approached, and boarded our boat with their dirty
heavy military boots. They sat down and started their procedures without
any small-talk. None of these officials, nor any other in the multiple
offices we later had to visit during the day ever wished us welcome to
their country! This is the very first time since we started sailing.
Here is the list of officials:
Customs, Immigration (called Migration), Maritime transport authority, 2
from the Navy, Ministry of health, Ministry of environment and one
driver of the barque. Each of these precoded filling out their
paperwork, except the 2 navy guys and the driver, and each presented us
with their bill, five in total!
They were as follows: Customs (20 USD for entrance, never paid, 10 USD
for leaving), Immigration (called Migration) (1107 cordobas 48 USD),
Maritime transport authority (1147 cordobas 52 USD), Ministry of health
(435 cordobas =20 USD) , Ministry of environment (435 cordobas = 20
USD). The representative from the Ministry of health said while she was
on the second boat that she had not charges us enough, it should have
been 40 USD, which we had to pay without receipt. Some receipts was in
cordobas and some in USD. The bill from the Customs we only got once we
left the next day. The guided visit of the boat for the Navy guys was so
superficial that had we wanted to hide something, or even somebody, they
would never had found it.
Once they had finished with the three other boats we were told to follow
them over to the marina in El Bluff and then further on to Bluefield, as
we had to visit the offices of Migration and maritime authorities. We
took our dinghy and went over to the marina, but after a long search
someone told us that they had already left for Bluefield without
waiting. Three of us sat off in our dinghy for the 4 mile journey and
midway in the lagoon they were waiting for us. We had been told by the
guy from Migration that we should not leave our dingy unattended and
that we could not expect to find anybody trustworthy to guard it in
Bluefield. Once we arrived there the local fishermen were all willing to
guard the dingy, and we let one of them place it a convenient place for
them. I took a picture of him in the dingy and told him we now have a
proof of who is responsible. I have used this trick several times and
never had problems, touch wood, even with the most dubious looking guy.
We were told by the guy from migration to take a taxi to his office,
which was a ten minutes drive away. We asked the taxi to wait as we
expected it to be a short stop before we returned to the dinghy. As we
entered the offices we found three female officers each in their rocking
chair in the waiting room. Our guy finally arrived on his motorbike and
proceeded slowly to calculate the bill. They took all our passports and
one of the girls left the building with them, we presume it was to make
some photocopies in a shop nearby. They could not accept dollars and
told us to go next door to the petrol station to change, which we did
and got a better rate than at the bank, 23.50 vs 23.06.
Once all this was settled we were told we had to visit the Maritime
transport authority. Another five minutes in the taxi and we arrived in
a most run down bungalow with an atrium. We were led to the
commissionaire who told us that the cost would be 1147 cordobas, again
for each yacht, but that he could not accept money. He never told us
what the fee was supposed to cover, but one can suspect it was for
maintenance of the maritime signalling system. We had to go down-town
again to a bank and do a deposit on an account. Arriving at the bank, by
taxi, a long queue of people outside did not stop us being accepted into
the same length queue inside. After a while we discovered there were a
teller dedicated to elderly, pregnant etc. This being the case for one
of us we immediately changed queue and got served promptly and
efficiently by a young and smiling lady, the only smile we had all day.
Arriving back at the maritime transport authorities by taxi, nothing had
been prepared and another half an hours wait to exchange our proof of
payment at the bank by a hand written receipt. Our watches was showing
16:30, nine hours after our first successful radio call with the
authorities! We could not do any more today, the checking out was for
tomorrow. As the taxi arrived back near the dinghy he wanted 30 USD,
another one that tried to take us for a ride! I gave him a 10 dollar
bill and left, and wither another two dollars from my wife he was left
on his own. The guy from Migration had told us to pay a maximum of 1.50
USD per trip.
We had hardly been able to start the repair-work we came in to do. So
far we had paid 170 USD each yacht of the 135 USD they told us about,
and we had been told there were another 30 next day for the marina. We
were all furious and decided to refuse to pay any more ransom (fees).
Around 2 PM the following day we had finished our work and was ready to
leave. We went to what we were told was the marina offices. When they
said the fees would be 90 USD per boat (not the 30 declared the previous
day) the 6 or seven officers present was told load and clear in no
uncertain terms in both English (they had one guy who translated for the
others) and Spanish that we were extremely unhappy about our
hostage-taking and general attitude of the officials, as well as the
additional fess, and that we had no intention of paying any more, not
one cordoba! We also told them we did not need their zarpa (clearance),
as we still had the one from Cayman, which was valid until Panama.
Everywhere else this has been taken off us on arrival. The actually
showed some sympathy and indicated that they understood our frustration
and fury, and when we left the office they wished us a good journey. We
felt that we had at least one battle, although the war had already been
lost. As we motored out the channel and were close to the famous red boy
a barque with five men in navy uniform, each with their kalachnikov in
ready-to-shoot position approached and told us to turn around as we had
not paid all the fines (fees) and we would get in trouble later if we
did not have their zarpa. We told them too, load and clear and in no
uncertain terms in both English and Spanish that we were did not need
their zarpa and we had paid more than the port captain has told us as
the maximum amount. When I continue forward they made signs to board us,
which I clearly indicated would not be tolerated. When they insisted
with their attempts to board us I got my machete out (kept in its
sleeve). This seemed to make them understand that I meant what I was
saying and they were not welcome on board. As they turned back another
barque with even more kalachnikovs and men to handle them arrived with
the boss, the Port Captain, who had received, not welcomed, us the
previous day. I gave them the same reception as the previous one and
they backed off. While standing on the side deck with my hands raised I
said “ Shoot, if you want me to turn around, shoot, shoot if you dare!”.
I repeated this several times and made signs holding a gun and pointing
at my head, so they had no excuse they had not understood English. He
recognized that he would not be able to force us to turn around, and
said he would send out the coast guard after us if we continued. I
wondered if he really be so stupid as to send a ship that costs several
thousands an hour to collect 50 dollars, and having watched his
behaviour for a few minutes I thought he might be. My wife did not like
the situations and in discussions with the other captains they decided
to accept to pay the additional 200 USD in ransom. I called the barque
over, which had been kept at a distance, and accepted that they held on
to my boat (the machete was still visible on the aft deck table) while
my wife very calmly, but firmly, explained the situation to the Port
Captain, who was now also in navy battle gear and with his kalachnikov.
He asked to see the receipt for what we have paid already and seemed
puzzled and became less aggressive. With his change in attitude and as
the other three captains had agreed to turn around and anchor where we
had been, so did I. A small delegation consisting of my wife, the
Spanish speaker, and another caption was sent ashore with our clearance
from Cayman. Half an hour later they came back for the boat papers, as
they had not noted down the official registration numbers the previous
day. My wife managed to negotiate our relief from hostage-taking against
35 USD instead of 90, which shows clearly that they find a law and fee
structure they want. The 35 USD was 10 for the buoys in the channel and
25 for the port. In total we had paid 820 USD for the four yachts, not
including taxi and bank commissions etc., split between seven (7)
different offices of the same government!
We were free, a real relief, but which we could only really saviour once
we had passed their 24NM limit! The next day, while still 40 miles
outside the Nicaraguan cost we had three times visits of barques similar
to those used by the Navy in El Bluff. Each boat came on its own, 3 men
on-board, turned around us and between us and several times stopped. As
soon as we saw the first one approaching we tightened up the ranks to
only a few hundred meters between us. We did not like this and we shared
the visual and radar watches between the 8 of us.

My advice to anybody that should be so unfortunate to have technical or
other problems along this cost are:
- Make sure they acknowledge on the VHF that they have understood that
you are only stopping for technical reasons.
- Make sure they accept your request to enter, if not they consider you
as an illegal immigrant.
- Negotiate any fees before entering, but do not bet on it.
Do all this while you are well outside, several miles. They can hear you
and probably have been following you for the last days.
I do not have any advice to people who willingly want to visit this
place, I’m not a psychiatrist.
We were also told that Bluefield is not a port of entry, anyhow you can
only get there if your draft is less than 50 cm.

Ivar & Asuncion on Paloma of Gibraltar
The other three boats were:
Pacific Cool and Carajan of La Rochelle and Hasta Luego of La Valette
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Old 15-06-2012, 17:00   #43
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Sounds like things have changed since i was last in nicauragua in '94.

Had to drop into puerto corinto with hydraulic issues on a cat delivery and enter and exit was as smooth as silk. The people wer helpful and honest from the fisher we rafted up with to the customs officials who all came to is with straight forward fees.

Shame.
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Old 15-06-2012, 19:00   #44
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr B View Post
I have one of those flare guns on board, it came with the boat,
I have flares that it shoots,

Its supposed to fire a flare into the sky, I dont know, I have never fired it,

A few questions about it from people who have fired one of these flare guns,

How much flame, explosion, flare, heat, fire, Etc, do they produce,

Would it burn a hole in a boat coming along side yours,

Would it have enough flame and smoke to distract people in the boat,

Would it put the people in the boat in danger of sinking their boat,

Is it a very big flare or just a small bright light that it puts out,

The chances of some one on a small boat being able to shoot at you accurately is very slim,
So you would certainly be able to fire a few of these flares into their boat as they where bobbing around trying to grab hold of the side of your boat,

Even throwing ordinary flares into their boat beside yours, would certainly upset their apple cart,

It would certainly create confusion on their part, If not put them in a serious case of sinking their own boat,

Put your self in their shoes, You want to rob this boat, First you have to get onto it,

Your in a wildly bobbing boat, you have to grab hold of the boat your boarding, You have a gun in your hand,

Your not very steady, The people on the boat are throwing flares at you, If not shooting flares at you,
Is your boat on fire from the flares, Has one of those flares hit you,

I have seen them fire off flares at soccer matches, on the ground, they release a lot of smoke and flames,
People certainly move away form them,

Your on a solid boat, its usually pretty steady compared to a bobbing boat,

The pirate boat is only a few feet away from yours, I carry about six flares of different kinds,

They would get the lot as fast as I could release them, Starting with the ones from the flare gun, fired straight at the person standing up trying to board my boat,

Then throwing the rest into their boat, Usually they have petrol driven boats, not diesel, so their risk of explosion is extremely high, leaky fuel lines etc, They are not well maintained boats like we operate,

I never thought of using my flare gun or flares in this way before,
I dont carry firearms, and I was always thinking of what I could do in the event of a pirate attack other than not going to a pirate area,

I just had a hammer handy, as they come onto my vessel, I smack them with the hammer as they try to board,
I am standing solidly on my boat, they are leaping all over the place,

Hold on to some thing solid near the transom where they are trying to board, keep your hammer concealed till you need to actually use it,

Theres not much they can do about it as they are trying to grab a hold and not end up in the water as they try to get from their boat onto mine,

Think about how you get from your dinghy onto your boat at anchor,
Then think about if your boat is doing 7 knots and your trying to get onto it, It gets a bit difficult,

They dont expect to be attacked as they board your boat filled with very rich people who dont know how to fight back,

I worked all my life to buy my boat, I wont let some scum bag try to take it off me,

And I dont care if they are poor and underpriveleged or some other wank term used to make a thief sound good or deserving,

End of rant, You can jump on me now,
I feel ya, but I think the people I have seen in most of the tropics are very agile, slim, trim and very able seamen if that is their trade..I would be very leary of reducing them to the level of fitness that the west seems to be in at the moment and would be prepared to deal with some one able to whoop my ass...Im all for trying to survive and by following Sun Su's advice (know your enemy and know yourself) we would be better able to do that...DVC
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Old 15-06-2012, 19:23   #45
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: Van DeStat Super Dogger 31'
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr B View Post
I have one of those flare guns on board, it came with the boat,
I have flares that it shoots,

Its supposed to fire a flare into the sky, I dont know, I have never fired it,
.............
Just a quick aside Mr B, you might want to check with your local law wallas but it is highly likely that fare gun is illegal in Vic. Just wanting to keep you informed, no judgement implied
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