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Old 18-12-2012, 02:15   #361
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

And that's a loaded chair!!

Cheers
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Old 18-12-2012, 04:58   #362
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, asduffy.
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Old 18-12-2012, 06:51   #363
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pirate Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

[QUOTE=asduffy;1109769] ...
These pirats are there because it is not profitable to get rid of them. If Sailors worldwide got together and created international law that stated if your country has a port then it is financially responsible for any wrongdoing. ... take the money out of the pockets of the nice people who make money from us, then we say to them it is your responsibility to keep us save if you intend to take our money. It's the cost of doing business.
...pirats just wont take the chance on $11k if the result is a $50k fine to the community, that is a $50k hit on their lives. Legally!!! QUOTE]

A reading of other pirat posts in the past suggests Somalia, for example, doesn't have a viable governmental structure. My guess is the same could be said for other countries in the region.

I've highlighted the spelling error and adopted it. It's better than the "correct" version.



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...I would most certainly carry firearms. I am an enthusiast and collect firearms in the states. However while cruising I worry much more about third world prison than I do pirates.
These two statements seem contradictory. ???
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Old 18-12-2012, 07:44   #364
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

I've never seen the "hot topic remander" on this forum. How did I miss those moderator messages on the "blue water capable thread?"

My POV: Only visit places like Nauru, Tuvalu, etc. If only one in a hundred thousand persons may harbor a compunction to raise the jolly roger, then peace and tranquility comes in places where the national population is smaller than a pocket borough in the north of Scotland ...

OK - Now that I've thought about it, maybe I'll take Niue over Nauru ...

Yes, I'm antisocial.
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Old 18-12-2012, 08:37   #365
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

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Originally Posted by Sailor_Hutch View Post
I've never seen the "hot topic remander" on this forum. How did I miss those moderator messages on the "blue water capable thread?"

My POV: Only visit places like Nauru, Tuvalu, etc. If only one in a hundred thousand persons may harbor a compunction to raise the jolly roger, then peace and tranquility comes in places where the national population is smaller than a pocket borough in the north of Scotland ...

OK - Now that I've thought about it, maybe I'll take Niue over Nauru ...

Yes, I'm antisocial.
I belive Australia has beat you to "taken Nauru".. Nothing left but a big pit mine!Most of the population live out of suitcases and airplanes,flying from one hotel to another..Each hotel has a consulate office and gov.reps run the whole show...
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Old 18-12-2012, 08:51   #366
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

Cool, I got the "hot topic" message.

I agree with asduffy. The best solution is the solution most civilizations have turned too. The farmer learned long ago, it is hard to farm if you have to carry a big sword around in one hand, and plow with the other, it is also hard to plow the back 40 while worrying about the wife, and daughters on the other side of the hill.

It is much easier to pay a tax to someone who carries arms professionally, (and with constant practice will get better than average), and trust that other than an occasional, and predictable shakedown at tax time, the "professional guards" AKA police, will attack those who do NOT farm for a living, and respond to hue and cry if your family or possesions are in danger.

Knowing exactly how much you will have to pay, (and much less than the 100% the mauraders take), makes planning for a profit possible.

And gives you the ability to sleep at night.

A simple solution that has worked for thousands of years, if someone can't play nice, lock them up.

In your own country; bearing arms is a common law right, in another country that puts you in the catagory of "invading army".

You would think that boycotting those countries that refuse to address their crime problems would be effective, but alas the drug trade takes up the slack.

Until we as a society address the root cause of these problems, I'm afraid we will just have to live with the side effects.
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Old 18-12-2012, 10:02   #367
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

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Originally Posted by asduffy View Post
It seems that reading through this post there is one of two solutions. First is to be submissive and give in to them in the hope you are not harmed (statistically this is your best chance of the two), coupled with the idea that you spend your money in nice places. Second is to fight back with a weapon at the risk of escalating the experience or least being imprisoned for carrying illegal weapons.

Most countries try and make money off people. They charge all kinds of fees for port entry and other fines and stuff. I think there is a great option to deal with this.

These pirats are there because it is not profitable to get rid of them. If Sailors worldwide got together and created international law that stated if your country has a port then it is financially responsible for any wrongdoing. I would set the minimum find around $50k, then the governments of these countries would see profit it dealing with there pirates. I would set loss of life at $100,000,000.00 this would cripple these countries and their business that benefits off this community. I think overnight you would see their navy hunting these people down instead of harassing the sailing community for not checking into a port in the right way.

If we take the money out of the pockets of the nice people who make money from us, then we say to them it is your responsibility to keep us save if you intend to take our money. It's the cost of doing business.

For those of you that want to arm yourself, trust me there is no wepon you can afford that equals that of a navy destroyer of even the poorest countries. Pirats just wont take the chance on $11k if the result is a $50k fine to the community, that is a $50k hit on their lives. Legally!!!

Also it would make for safer waters and more business at port, thus giving more opportunity in their countries and providing a legitimate living for someone considering a life of a pirate.

The question is not should you fight or not, the question is are there ways you could create law that would make in profitable to the right people to ensure that you never have to ask this question in the first place.

err. Pirates tend to exist where the rule of law does not. Hence just whos navy that youve paid port taxes to would intervene.!!!.

Then theres the issue of scale of costs, you think that any sort of port taxes from ships and cruisers would actually raise anything like the cost of maintaining all that Naval Hardware in the Gulf of Aden.

Responsible nations dont suffer from pirates, its the problematic areas that do, you see.

Dave
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Old 18-12-2012, 10:17   #368
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

The U.S. govt. has a strong presence in Honduras, the DEA, FBI, CIA, and USCG, are all in the area of Roatan, for drug interdiction purposes, I would hope they would step in if they became aware of an attack on a boater by pirates.
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Old 18-12-2012, 10:30   #369
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

"The U.S. govt. has a strong presence in Honduras, the DEA, FBI, CIA, and USCG, are all in the area of Roatan, for drug interdiction purposes, I would hope they would step in if they became aware of an attack on a boater by pirates." ...

I'm reading, here and there, that not even the regular Honduran police will venture into eastern Honduras ...

It's a hard nut to crack. Too many police, and they take away YOUR freedom. If there are too few police, then they are not able to limit the criminals. In either case, they can BE criminals ...
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Old 18-12-2012, 12:47   #370
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

I never suggested that the taxes come form the sailors, I suggested that they come from the people who live in those countries that benefit from the sailing community being in their country spending tourist dollars there. This already happens to a degree.

For fun, google... Honduran Navy Building Up Presence on both the Atlantic and Pacific borders

This looks like they have a strong Navy, they just need a little more persuasion to spend some time taking out the pirates.

My main point was that the cruisers seem to hold the power that they contribute a decent amount of money to these countries. I think that international Maritime law could be used to punish the countries that are found not doing enough about the problem. This would trigger a choice for these countries to either clean up their waters or lose the revenue from cruisers.

If we could get them to start taking this problem more seriously maybe some new technology would help to. Something along the lines of a EPRIB idea. Something loud and with flashing lights that once turned on could not be turned off and would reliably get the navy to respond and track down the pirates. If that worked the pirates would just run the second they saw and herd you set it off. Also have a big bright flag on your boat that says you are using this device.

The benefits from this could be;

A very good deterrent, most criminals go for a easy targets. If they see this and think there is a good chance that they will get hunted down the second that alarm goes off they may wait for an easy target and leave you alone in the first place.

By creating new International Maritime Law you could collect from your insurance and your insurance company would have a way of using this new law to recoup their loses.

Lastly, I think I would rather criminals jailed, this deters others from thinking they can do the same crime. I do not want to be responsible for taking anyone's life by arming myself and killing someone over simple belongings that are insured anyway.
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Old 18-12-2012, 18:36   #371
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

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I have an armchair and I am not afraid to use it .
I was trying to figure out how to say that - Thanks.
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Old 18-12-2012, 18:42   #372
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

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My main point was that the cruisers seem to hold the power that they contribute a decent amount of money to these countries.
.
Naaa.

Cruisers are cheap and only spend what they have to.

Now, cruise ship passengers..........thats different.

Another forum too.
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Old 18-12-2012, 20:06   #373
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

Cruise ship companies could stand to contribute more money to the host countries they visit. Once upon a time a small town in Alaska tried to impose a head tax on visiting cruise ships and the cruise ships all left without a backward glance and went to the next community down the coast line. That community was more grateful to the cruise ships presence and enjoyed the additional income that was brought in by the passengers visiting the town.
There is already a device in exsistance very much the same construct as an EPIRB that is used for a security alert.
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Old 19-12-2012, 04:59   #374
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

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I never suggested that the taxes come form the sailors, I suggested that they come from the people who live in those countries that benefit from the sailing community being in their country spending tourist dollars there. This already happens to a degree.
I think your goals might be a tad ambitious.........


Nonetheless some collective action by Cruisers would seem sensible and at least vaguely doable by some - whether individually deciding simply to avoid certain places / countries or by acting collectively at anchor (shared anchor watch or even patrols) or by travelling in convoy along certain routes, whether formally or adhoc.
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Old 19-12-2012, 08:05   #375
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

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No one, I repete No One, Has the right to board your vessel without your permission!
what tosh.

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