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Old 13-07-2012, 06:58   #211
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

SunDevil asked "I wonder if anyone has thought to use fireworks as a boat-to-boat deterrent?" ==> Well, there is some historical precedent - in the American national anthem part of the lyrics state something to the effect that "the rocket's red glare, the bombs bursting in air" which were Congreve rockets being launched from British warships. These were essentially fireworks optimized for lethality, and the British fired hundreds if not thousands at a stationary target. The effectiveness follows in the next line which says "gave proof through the night that our flag was still there". I am dubious that carrying and attempting to use fireworks from your floating home is a good idea. They are not designed for either accuracy or lethality although they can be very dangerous when stored - to you and your boat. If you feel the need to experiment with this method of defense, here are two alternative options that might be marginally safer and possibly more effective.

Likely you can find a sturdy aluminum tube into which a beer can will snugly fit but still easily move. Attaching a small pressure tank with two valves will allow you to accelerate a can full of beer to some significant velocity. Simply open the small valve to pressurize the small tank from a 4000psi scuba tank; close the small valve; load in a full can of beer (or some suitable load in an empty beer can); aim and then open the large valve to allow the air pressure to toss the can in the direction of your target.

For close range deterrence, simply rig a high pressure pump and spray nozzle (set to project a solid stream) so that instead of water, the pump throws a stream of gasoline (diesel might be safer) from a 20 liter 'jerry' can. A relatively small motorcycle battery will likely last long enough to empty the jerry can, which makes the contraption easily portable. Simply hose down the offending boat and the miscreants within, then ignite using a flare of some kind (or any other suitable ignition source - my preference would be a flaming arrow, it has style and is always handy if someone needs a Viking ship funeral).

Things like these are always fun to build, disassemble for safe storage, and as scattered components, are unobtrusive and usually legal. Practice is always a good thing to insure proper operation under stressful conditions.
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Old 13-07-2012, 07:18   #212
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I wonder if anyone has thought to use fireworks as a boat-to-boat deterrent? I don't know the legality of fireworks in every jurisdiction, and I don't know how fast you could set up a tube with one of those flash bang rounds in it (since you would have to keep them dry). But you wouldn't have to get too close if the range was right and you fired it on a horizontal trajectory.

harsh language would work just as good as would spitballs,,,,
"I fart in your general direction, you English Peeg dog..."

"vat do zey vant?"

"zey search for zee 'olee grail. I told zem ve already haf vun.."
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Old 13-07-2012, 07:32   #213
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Interesting. And with regards to shield/machete man-on-man fighting. Don't forget a helmet. You can use a cycling helmet. It's rock solid can save you from a severe head injury that would other wise leave u unconscious. Now since the intruder is not wearing a helmet, you can surely take a swing on his head. :-p

Cycling helmet also comes handy in bad weather.

Cheers
Pepare to repel boarders!

The pirate can't hit the broadside of a barn with a handgun but we can stick the end of a 5 foot long boat hook in his neck? Uh, ok...

Life ain't tv. I watched a guy try to headbutt another guy on the bridge of the nose ala (you name the action movie). All he did was bump foreheads, almost knock himself out and piss off the other guy, who proceded to pretty much kick his butt.

I saw a guy get shot in a bar in Manila. Didn't slow him down a bit. He kept advancing and stabbed the other guy.

Many folks on this thread need to seriously look at some footage of real fights. Nothing goes to plan, nothing is choreographed like a movie and it is ridiculously hard to knock someone out or even reduce their will to fight. A knife injury unless it has hit an artery is largely an inconvenience in a short term fight. Pretty much the same for a gunshot unless you've hit a critical organ.
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Old 13-07-2012, 11:03   #214
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

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Originally Posted by storyinframes View Post
Interesting. And with regards to shield/machete man-on-man fighting. Don't forget a helmet. You can use a cycling helmet. It's rock solid can save you from a severe head injury that would other wise leave u unconscious. Now since the intruder is not wearing a helmet, you can surely take a swing on his head. :-p

Cycling helmet also comes handy in bad weather.

Cheers
Or a bucket (ideally tin).......could quickly bash two eyeholes in
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Old 13-07-2012, 11:07   #215
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

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Originally Posted by Bruce626 View Post
For close range deterrence, simply rig a high pressure pump and spray nozzle (set to project a solid stream) so that instead of water, the pump throws a stream of gasoline (diesel might be safer) from a 20 liter 'jerry' can. A relatively small motorcycle battery will likely last long enough to empty the jerry can, which makes the contraption easily portable. Simply hose down the offending boat and the miscreants within, then ignite using a flare of some kind (or any other suitable ignition source - my preference would be a flaming arrow, it has style and is always handy if someone needs a Viking ship funeral ).
+1

Style is important and I would even go as far as advocating a degree of Panache
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Old 13-07-2012, 11:17   #216
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

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Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
Pepare to repel boarders!

The pirate can't hit the broadside of a barn with a handgun but we can stick the end of a 5 foot long boat hook in his neck? Uh, ok...

Life ain't tv. I watched a guy try to headbutt another guy on the bridge of the nose ala (you name the action movie). All he did was bump foreheads, almost knock himself out and piss off the other guy, who proceded to pretty much kick his butt.

I saw a guy get shot in a bar in Manila. Didn't slow him down a bit. He kept advancing and stabbed the other guy.

Many folks on this thread need to seriously look at some footage of real fights. Nothing goes to plan, nothing is choreographed like a movie and it is ridiculously hard to knock someone out or even reduce their will to fight. A knife injury unless it has hit an artery is largely an inconvenience in a short term fight. Pretty much the same for a gunshot unless you've hit a critical organ.

Ex-Cal is correct in the above assessment and I would like to add one further remark, in all sincerity and respect ,and that is I would bet very few of the respondants to this blog have ever been in a fight for their life, let alone even a schoolyard brawl as a young person. And, a determined experienced oppponent who might also be high on alcohol or drugs is commited to the end: either yours or his. If you've never been stunned by a punch to your head or body with a continuing, un-ending assault, you'll quickly discover who you are--hopefully for the positive. If you're really unsure, avoiding areas with the potential for violence like the plague. The mental scars are forever.
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Old 13-07-2012, 11:52   #217
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

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Yah and the cannibals in Miami too....

Boat hooks...nobody has thought how useful a weapon a well tuned book hook can be !!!! LOL

Huh? What? It wasn't me! I haven't been in Miami in months!

and what's this about well tinned coat hooks??
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Old 13-07-2012, 13:26   #218
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

Folks, going cold steel is not as easy as it looks in the movies or as fun as it reads in the books.

If you do get down to edged weapons, accept the fact that you're going to be cut. If you are bound by the fear of that blade it will seriously cramp your ability. Also, most folks have an innate inhibition to sticking a sharp object into a warm body...even when it is hostile. Relying on adrenaline and inspiration in the heat of the moment is not good because your thinking is greatly impaired and you are setting your hopes on reacting...you're a step behind all the way, and you only have split seconds. Law enforcement folks fear facing knives, because it's over in a moment and bulletproof vests are useless against blades...this is why they usually shoot knife wielders. The debate of what is better, four inches with the point or two inches with the edge, has been going on for centuries with no clear winner...think of the rapier's point and the military sword's edge, both are deadly. The little blades are in my opinion the deadliest, such as the Fairbairn-Sykes. It can all be over very

No matter how much you have trained, you will never fight anywhere near your "level". If you can avoid it, do so. Cold steel is worse than shooting it out...at knife distance, it's personal, and suddenly seeing people's insides on the outside will shock you, especially if they are yours. If you learn to fight unarmed, then you have laid a foundation for using and understanding weapons, including improvised ones. Krav Maga or one of the other reality-grounded systems, forget the sporting and tournament styles because there is no referee to stop the fight when it gets dirty. But, proper knife fighting training and experience is rare, difficult and dangerous...better find some other solution, if possible. Our culture majors in bangsticks and has forgotten the other arts of personal warfare.

Consider that both the pirate hotspot regions are cultures known for their edged weapon fighting, and that these pirates as in the OP are reportedly gang members....probably a little experience in carving folks up and with their consciences seared to dullness and inhibitions somewhat overcome; or they're simply lowlifes with no sense. The gang toughs are not a good first opponent for a cruiser probably coming from a still somewhat civilised society that has insulated its members from the realities of this harsh world. The ignorant lowlife is not so dangerous on account of the lack of "experience", but still nasty because he is essentially unpredictable, especially when frightened, surprised, or cornered.

Someone mentioned a shield....fantastically good idea. And I will add, in your right hand a handy blunt weapon would be more useful and less of a danger to yourself than a blde, and can be used to practise the same principles so that you understand the use of them in an opponents hands. In the old days of the Anglo-Saxon world, this implement was called a "waster", or cudgel, and the practise of shield & waster at the pell (a wooden dummy) or amongst friends was common. So, when you get driven to distraction by halyard slap or the lack thereof, lay into a nice wooden dummy for some steam release and exercise. Or, get together with some other cruisers and practise together for fun and friendly competition. Probably not a good time to discuss the finer points of anchors and rigs.

A bruised and battered ex-pirate is easier to justify than one that has been sliced & diced....and a whole lot easier to live with in those long dark nights when the ghosts like to wander the halls of your memories and of those that saw the butchery. I wish there weren't such things in the world and that threads reporting violence and dealing with it were unnecessary, but going cruising is one of the last frontiers where you are eseentially on your own, only you have been put at a disadvantage by scoundrels forbidding you from sensible precautions, and refusing to fix problems because of a "higher" agenda. The onus is on us cruisers to get smart and cunning and still hang into some decency and dignity while doing so.

Safe sailing, a stout boat, snug harbour, and if you can't play the grey man anymore then be the hard man and remain a good man, and above all a living sailorman.

p.s. a nifty hand-thrown anti-ship weapon would be a thermite charge wrapped around some magnesium flares, but that's already too much info....don't drop the infernal device in your cockpit, it will burn through to the basement...remember, just survive, is enough. Sinking yourself would be amusing to your would-be assailant, but nobody else would find it funny. Ciao
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Old 13-07-2012, 13:34   #219
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

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Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
"I fart in your general direction, you English Peeg dog..."

"vat do zey vant?"

"zey search for zee 'olee grail. I told zem ve already haf vun.."
and your mother smelled of elderberries,,,, now go away or I will taunt you a second time
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Old 13-07-2012, 14:36   #220
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

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And yes, a big portion of africans are instinctly scared of dogs, specially black ones. It has to do , both with superstition and the fact that white people in africa has allways used big dogs against the native population.

.manitu
Just a note Antigua is full of Black people who have dogs that some of which are loved. It is also full of Black and a few white people who use them against others.
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Old 13-07-2012, 21:27   #221
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

storyinframes noted "And with regards to shield/machete man-on-man fighting. Don't forget a helmet. You can use a cycling helmet." ==> Yes, I already have one - used for cycling. OK as a stopgap, but I would much prefer to use my 14 gauge stainless steel barbute as its sides come down to cover my neck and it has a front grill for good visibility and breathing while keeping large objects out.

micah719 noted "Someone mentioned a shield....fantastically good idea. And I will add, in your right hand a handy blunt weapon would be more useful and less of a danger to yourself than a blde" ==> Yes, easily and inexpensively made from the bottom of a 55 gallon oil drum, just dish it out with a hammer while still part of the drum and then trim just below the reinforced rim at the side. Even easier is a steel parabolic satellite dish if one is unused scrap. I have considered the use of a lightweight aluminum or wood baseball bat instead of the long machete (the bigger machete is mainly for psychological purposes as the likely foe understands what it is capable of inflicting). SCA 'swords' are clubs made of thick rattan so I am very familiar with the use of clubs/cudgels. Actually I was investigating the bat for use as a 'cane' by gluing on a rubber tip on the big blunt end - now you can carry it anywhere - just limp.

Ex-Calif noted "The pirate can't hit the broadside of a barn with a handgun but we can stick the end of a 5 foot long boat hook in his neck? Uh, ok..." ==> Perhaps your actual experience in handgun use is better than mine, I don't think they will be very accurate - especially when the target is a moving bust (head & shoulders) at a range of 10-50 meters. I am much more confident about using a 10 foot long boat hook to strike the body of a boarder with a thrust (the base of the throat is on the torso). I have actually done this hundreds of times in freeform medieval combat with a 9 foot thrusting spear or a 7.5 foot glaive/naginata - with the target being the face (covered by a helm) of the opponent, and the foe was mounting an active defense (sword & shield, or spear/glaive). And this while encumbered by an extra 40 pounds of steel armor. Someone who can hook a small mooring ball from the bow of a boat - both of which are moving, should not find this task beyond their abilities (although a bit of practice wouldn't hurt).

Generally though, one does what one has trained to do in an emergency or high stress situation. If you do not train to do anything - then this is likely what you are going to do, i.e. nothing. It is a strategy that has worked for some lucky few who have lived to tell the tale - for the others, one just finds a body (or not). Some are willing to trust to luck, others not so much. I fall into the latter category, but I am not criticizing you if you don't. I will admit that I have some relatively unique skills developed from many years in the martial arts, military, and full force/full contact medieval free form combat. Still, most active people such as those found cruising, are likely to be able to do these things with some basic practice. Pirates and other thugs are not supermen, they are mentally and physically lazy and generally they do not put any great effort into preparation - it would be too much like actually working for a living.
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Old 14-07-2012, 08:20   #222
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.

Ex-Calif noted "The pirate can't hit the broadside of a barn with a handgun but we can stick the end of a 5 foot long boat hook in his neck? Uh, ok..." ==> Perhaps your actual experience in handgun use is better than mine, I don't think they will be very accurate - especially when the target is a moving bust (head & shoulders) at a range of 10-50 meters. I am much more confident about using a 10 foot long boat hook to strike the body of a boarder with a thrust (the base of the throat is on the torso). I have actually done this hundreds of times in freeform medieval combat with a 9 foot thrusting spear or a 7.5 foot glaive/naginata - with the target being the face (covered by a helm) of the opponent, and the foe was mounting an active defense (sword & shield, or spear/glaive). And this while encumbered by an extra 40 pounds of steel armor. Someone who can hook a small mooring ball from the bow of a boat - both of which are moving, should not find this task beyond their abilities (although a bit of practice wouldn't hurt).

Generally though, one does what one has trained to do in an emergency or high stress situation. If you do not train to do anything - then this is likely what you are going to do, i.e. nothing. It is a strategy that has worked for some lucky few who have lived to tell the tale - for the others, one just finds a body (or not). Some are willing to trust to luck, others not so much. I fall into the latter category, but I am not criticizing you if you don't. I will admit that I have some relatively unique skills developed from many years in the martial arts, military, and full force/full contact medieval free form combat. Still, most active people such as those found cruising, are likely to be able to do these things with some basic practice. Pirates and other thugs are not supermen, they are mentally and physically lazy and generally they do not put any great effort into preparation - it would be too much like actually working for a living.
Everyone has their choice and yours seems clear.

I would still argue that at 10 feet, handgun wins 99 out of 100.

It seems inconsistent to argue the innacuracy of a handgun at 50 meters then talk about using a boat hook at 10 feet.
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Old 14-07-2012, 08:50   #223
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

Just get one of these and you will be fine

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Old 14-07-2012, 08:52   #224
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and your mother smelled of elderberries,,,, now go away or I will taunt you a second time


TOLD YOU SO


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Old 14-07-2012, 08:56   #225
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Everyone has their choice and yours seems clear.

I would still argue that at 10 feet, handgun wins 99 out of 100.

It seems inconsistent to argue the innacuracy of a handgun at 50 meters then talk about using a boat hook at 10 feet.
There is no doubt all else being considered a handgun is a very good defence. The problem being ( a) it's illegal in lots of countries and (b) shooting someone leads to a world of paperwork, legal issues and possibly gaol.

The other issue is of course you need time to deploy it, if the intruder is armed and you don't get that window. Well the outcome is fairly predictable. The consistent issue with these " successful" attacks is that the occupants were surprised. I think if you can remove the surprise element you can defend yourself in all sorts of passive and aggressive manners

I have a nice beretta 87T .22 , not a lot of stoping power but close up with a hollow points .......

But I'm totally against guns for self defense !!
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