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Old 28-06-2012, 07:22   #196
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Originally Posted by NorthPacific
People the world over suffer from home invasions muggings random acts of violence and yet their is a recurring theme of advice from law enforcement from many countries. That to resist is not the the best option.

Has anyone wondered why the pirates do not arm themselves with single shot flare guns? Why criminals don't use them to rob or pillage. Why armies have automatic weapons?

If it was legal anyplace to pack a effective anti-personal weapon that I could use with impunity I would. But only if the world had Texas like laws that allow you to gun down anyone that looks threatening.

But like Peter Blake, would I point it or just start shooting? Would I have to pack my AK when I went ashore? Would that invite a bullet in the back from someone who wanted my AK?

I hate the feeling of feeling useless of going down without a fight, but to start a gunfight, even in the westerns the farmers always lost to the bad guys. So I think I will use the smarts I have and try to be less of a target.

I will finally relate an experience a friend had recently in Malaysia. They anchored in a bay and where approached by a outboard driven craft by 4 men with black ski masks(very common is asia to protect from the sun) and at least 2 of the them showing AK's. The men came along side and asked for booze. My mate met them with a bright smile and a wave was very positive an confident. Said no way to the idea of booze but told them to wait and brought up a carton of cigies. The guys where well happy and went back to shore.

In the morning the boat came roaring back. Not an attack but to give them fish and crabs for breakfast. Could have been quite the shoot out? Brains, some pre planning, right attitude.

To anyone who fancy's there chances good luck and I hope you will have a safe outcome and do not then spend years in some less then happy gaol cell.
In 30 years in Asia I have never seen an AK in Malaysia. I have never seen a gun in Malaysia except on a policemans hip. I would love to know the name of the bay and where it is located.

The ski masks are, as you say, very common. They cover from the sun with all kinds of stuff. I have traded beer many times for fish in Singapore and Malaysia.

I believe there may be shooting clubs and when I lived there they had neighborhood "crow shoots" but the shooting by permit and pellet guns.
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Old 28-06-2012, 09:28   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

In 30 years in Asia I have never seen an AK in Malaysia. I have never seen a gun in Malaysia except on a policemans hip. I would love to know the name of the bay and where it is located.

The ski masks are, as you say, very common. They cover from the sun with all kinds of stuff. I have traded beer many times for fish in Singapore and Malaysia.

I believe there may be shooting clubs and when I lived there they had neighborhood "crow shoots" but the shooting by permit and pellet guns.
++++1

Kept a boat in lumut, malaysia on the west side of the Thai peninsula for over 5 years. Sailed in the heart of the supposed "pirate alley" and was approached uncountable times and never saw a gun except on military or police. The penalty for guns or even ammo on your person is very harsh and can include the death penalty. Not many violate the rules for low value targets like sailboats. The piracy is mainly on the small to mid size south Asia shipping companies that usually have large amounts of currency on board due to currency and banking issues in the region...
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Old 28-06-2012, 10:08   #198
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

Here in Central America the locals are fiercely afraid of dogs. We have a Staffie and he barks at all the pangas and kayukas that go by. No one goes near our boat because Dexter (our English Staffie) has a pretty mean sounding bark. That is all it takes, they will go to another boat. There was a boat broken into an stuff stollen right beside us in anchor, they didn't touch ours. We especially make a big deal about tying him up out front if officials come on the boat, they are the ones who know what we have to steal, and they will also know we have a loco perro.

A dog is a better deterrent than a gun down here.
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Old 28-06-2012, 11:14   #199
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

This class may be a viable option for those that are not confident that they could "pull the trigger", from an article in USA Today.


A "summer camp" in Israel is teaching day-trippers how to kill terrorists.

West Bank camp teaches tourists how to 'shoot' terrorists - USATODAY.com
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Old 02-07-2012, 13:08   #200
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

Quote:
Originally Posted by youmeandthed View Post
Here in Central America the locals are fiercely afraid of dogs. We have a Staffie and he barks at all the pangas and kayukas that go by. No one goes near our boat because Dexter (our English Staffie) has a pretty mean sounding bark. That is all it takes, they will go to another boat. There was a boat broken into an stuff stollen right beside us in anchor, they didn't touch ours. We especially make a big deal about tying him up out front if officials come on the boat, they are the ones who know what we have to steal, and they will also know we have a loco perro.

A dog is a better deterrent than a gun down here.
What a fine coconut killer you have!!I too have one ,her name is Ruby and she is as good a dog as you will ever find...cant go wrong with a Pit bull,uh I mean a staffordshire terror,uh I ment terrier..Oh well, have fun and take good care of the coconut killer..DVC
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Old 02-07-2012, 13:16   #201
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

all josey wales activity is gonna do is guarantee loss of boat -if not by piratical activity, then by aduana confiscation of it. carry a firearm to be done in by it in one way or another.
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Old 12-07-2012, 20:14   #202
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

Having lived in a third world country for about seven years now, I don't think the main problem is pirates with AKs, more likely the problem is inebriated fishermen looking for an easy score. In the case of the OP, the armed robber had both a gun and boat with an outboard motor - this does not sound like a poor fisherman - they rarely have guns, if they do have guns it is likely in poor condition from salt water corrosion. Even if they have an operable gun, they often do not have bullets - or at least very many - and these too are subject to salt water corrosion. This lack of bullets leads to lack of practice - and practice is key to ever hitting anything with a handgun. Striking a person with a bullet from ten meters away is a non-trivial task on land (try it yourself at a shooting range) - complicating this by shooting from a small unstable moving boat makes this nearly impossible. Now consider that the target may be trying to hide and is also on a moving boat; - despite having been the officer in charge of my battalion pistol team and owned and fired many handguns, I suspect that I would be hard pressed to hit a bust sized target on a moving boat from another moving boat with a pistol (perhaps five or six shots if a revolver or 5-7 shots if a semi-auto - how much spare ammunition is a thug likely to be carrying). So there is every possibility that simply turning onto your fastest point of sail away from land and keeping your head down will be an effective deterrent - especially if the increase in speed adds to the boat's motion in large swells. If you pretend to ignore them, they might at least have to fire a warning shot - perhaps even into the air (one bullet gone, and now you know the gun is real and that it works) - still they have the problem of matching your course and maneuvering close enough to jump from one moving boat to the other. With only two - as the OP stated, this puts one person on your boat - probably the one with the gun; while the other is running the outboard. It is at precisely this time that a handy boat hook could be usefully employed - what has he done with the gun while jumping from one boat to the other? Surely he is not covering you while preparing to jump, jumping, or landing on your boat. All you now need to do is interfere with the landing and/or push him off the boat into the sea - the gun is now wet and the barrel likely full of water (if it has been retained - what are the odds that he just pushed it into his trouser band?). The accomplice with the small boat now needs to rescue his buddy in the water so there will likely be a pause in the pursuit while this occurs, and then they will have to catch up and try again if they are still armed and persistent. If a precision boat hook strike was made into the base of the throat, it is likely that there will be no further pursuit.

If one wants some training in how to use a boat hook in this fashion, visit www[dot]sca[dot]org and find a local chapter. They will train you for free to use a variety of medieval weapons - analogs to machetes and boat hooks called swords and thrusting spears or glaives/naginatas. Another useful bit of arcane knowledge that you can pick up is how to use a shield. My preference is the side mount round shield - totally legal and easily made; this way if you want to go mano-a-mano with a machete against a similarly armed intruder, you will have a HUGE advantage in coming out the winner (especially if you have one of the larger machetes used for cutting sugar cane - they are nearly the length of a broadsword - while a fisherman would likely have a smaller utility machete so you would have a significant reach advantage). Note that one throws neither the spear nor the shield (only Captain America does this).

Note that this is only one possible scenario out of thousands - the key is to be alert and be prepared by having visualized a variety of courses of action, practiced them, and have any simple legal materials ready at hand. No firearms are needed, just the will to survive and the means of doing so.
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Old 12-07-2012, 20:37   #203
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

I wonder if anyone has thought to use fireworks as a boat-to-boat deterrent? I don't know the legality of fireworks in every jurisdiction, and I don't know how fast you could set up a tube with one of those flash bang rounds in it (since you would have to keep them dry). But you wouldn't have to get too close if the range was right and you fired it on a horizontal trajectory.
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Old 12-07-2012, 20:49   #204
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

I wonder if anyone has thought to use fireworks as a boat-to-boat deterrent? I don't know the legality of fireworks in every jurisdiction, and I don't know how fast you could set up a tube with one of those flash bang rounds in it (since you would have to keep them dry). But you wouldn't have to get too close if the range was right and you fired it on a horizontal trajectory.

harsh language would work just as good as would spitballs,,,,
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Old 13-07-2012, 03:09   #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce626
Having lived in a third world country for about seven years now, I don't think the main problem is pirates with AKs, more likely the problem is inebriated fishermen looking for an easy score. In the case of the OP, the armed robber had both a gun and boat with an outboard motor - this does not sound like a poor fisherman - they rarely have guns, if they do have guns it is likely in poor condition from salt water corrosion. Even if they have an operable gun, they often do not have bullets - or at least very many - and these too are subject to salt water corrosion. This lack of bullets leads to lack of practice - and practice is key to ever hitting anything with a handgun. Striking a person with a bullet from ten meters away is a non-trivial task on land (try it yourself at a shooting range) - complicating this by shooting from a small unstable moving boat makes this nearly impossible. Now consider that the target may be trying to hide and is also on a moving boat; - despite having been the officer in charge of my battalion pistol team and owned and fired many handguns, I suspect that I would be hard pressed to hit a bust sized target on a moving boat from another moving boat with a pistol (perhaps five or six shots if a revolver or 5-7 shots if a semi-auto - how much spare ammunition is a thug likely to be carrying). So there is every possibility that simply turning onto your fastest point of sail away from land and keeping your head down will be an effective deterrent - especially if the increase in speed adds to the boat's motion in large swells. If you pretend to ignore them, they might at least have to fire a warning shot - perhaps even into the air (one bullet gone, and now you know the gun is real and that it works) - still they have the problem of matching your course and maneuvering close enough to jump from one moving boat to the other. With only two - as the OP stated, this puts one person on your boat - probably the one with the gun; while the other is running the outboard. It is at precisely this time that a handy boat hook could be usefully employed - what has he done with the gun while jumping from one boat to the other? Surely he is not covering you while preparing to jump, jumping, or landing on your boat. All you now need to do is interfere with the landing and/or push him off the boat into the sea - the gun is now wet and the barrel likely full of water (if it has been retained - what are the odds that he just pushed it into his trouser band?). The accomplice with the small boat now needs to rescue his buddy in the water so there will likely be a pause in the pursuit while this occurs, and then they will have to catch up and try again if they are still armed and persistent. If a precision boat hook strike was made into the base of the throat, it is likely that there will be no further pursuit.

If one wants some training in how to use a boat hook in this fashion, visit www[dot]sca[dot]org and find a local chapter. They will train you for free to use a variety of medieval weapons - analogs to machetes and boat hooks called swords and thrusting spears or glaives/naginatas. Another useful bit of arcane knowledge that you can pick up is how to use a shield. My preference is the side mount round shield - totally legal and easily made; this way if you want to go mano-a-mano with a machete against a similarly armed intruder, you will have a HUGE advantage in coming out the winner (especially if you have one of the larger machetes used for cutting sugar cane - they are nearly the length of a broadsword - while a fisherman would likely have a smaller utility machete so you would have a significant reach advantage). Note that one throws neither the spear nor the shield (only Captain America does this).

Note that this is only one possible scenario out of thousands - the key is to be alert and be prepared by having visualized a variety of courses of action, practiced them, and have any simple legal materials ready at hand. No firearms are needed, just the will to survive and the means of doing so.
Good assessment there.
Of course most cruisers should have that courage to ride over that threshold adrenaline which prepares you for close fight. Most cruisers are simple people who have never done this...
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Old 13-07-2012, 03:42   #206
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

I have to agree with Bruce on the difficulty of hitting with a handgun. I'm also pretty handy with one usually able to fit all my shots into a circle the size of my palm at 50 feet.

But that is under ideal conditions - at a range, standing on level ground, with good lighting etc.

Could I het someone from 30-40 feet away shooting from a bobbing boat , with their boat also bobbing?

Nope

I can hit the boat - perhaps.

Don't fall into the trap of thinking that real-life shooting is just like in the movies. Noone can shoot a gun out of someones hand at 50 feet. Especially not after a quick draw.
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Old 13-07-2012, 04:06   #207
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

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Originally Posted by SunDevil View Post
I wonder if anyone has thought to use fireworks as a boat-to-boat deterrent? I don't know the legality of fireworks in every jurisdiction, and I don't know how fast you could set up a tube with one of those flash bang rounds in it (since you would have to keep them dry). But you wouldn't have to get too close if the range was right and you fired it on a horizontal trajectory.
In the UK at least they are funny about fireworks - back when I was a kid the French sold the good bangers. School trips to France always involved lots coming back (the trick was to make sure the Teachers confiscated lots - just not yours ). One year a kid even brought back a gun.......
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Old 13-07-2012, 04:14   #208
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

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Originally Posted by Bruce626 View Post
Another useful bit of arcane knowledge that you can pick up is how to use a shield. My preference is the side mount round shield - totally legal and easily made; this way if you want to go mano-a-mano with a machete against a similarly armed intruder, you will have a HUGE advantage in coming out the winner (especially if you have one of the larger machetes used for cutting sugar cane - they are nearly the length of a broadsword - while a fisherman would likely have a smaller utility machete so you would have a significant reach advantage). Note that one throws neither the spear nor the shield (only Captain America does this).
The shield thing has merit - a Machete scares me far more than a gun. Both for the effect they have and because where they are commonplace the locals get comfortable using them. including on each other. I have got used to many things on my travels, but never that.

I keep muttering about it - but not yet done anything (hey, I am tied to the dock!) but I will be getting a Cutlass of some sort! Both as boat decoration and for use. As you state - being able to outreach the other fella is useful.....and with rigging in play (I am on a Ketch!) being able to stab someone from a distance likely to be more useful than needing a swing or doing an Errol Flynn!....as me Missus advised, you need a good handle, as "(Stab) one time no good - they angry you".

IME if someone is threatening you with a gun (not always pointed at you) then odds are good they will not be using it (or at least at that time / position it is not their favoured option). Otherwise they would have already. What "you" do with that window of opportunity is the million dollar question.........

.....but of course don't quote me on that! YMMV
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Old 13-07-2012, 04:37   #209
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Interesting. And with regards to shield/machete man-on-man fighting. Don't forget a helmet. You can use a cycling helmet. It's rock solid can save you from a severe head injury that would other wise leave u unconscious. Now since the intruder is not wearing a helmet, you can surely take a swing on his head. :-p

Cycling helmet also comes handy in bad weather.

Cheers
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Old 13-07-2012, 04:43   #210
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

Might take some time to get ready, but if you drop a bunch of lighted flares into their boat they will be kept busy for a while. You might also get lucky, and their boat will catch on fire.

Swing a big fender at the head of someone trying got board - it will knock them into the water.

Ram their boat when they try to get alongside - maybe you can tip them over.

A mainsheet or spinnaker halyard with a shackle on the end makes a dandy weapon.

So does a big frying pan
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