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Old 19-06-2012, 11:02   #136
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

I can see this is turning into another right leaning paranoia gun thread. I've been to a few "3rd" world countries. One of them had a coup d'état while I was there. I always felt safe.
If you put yourself in precarious situations, you will get precarious results. I also feel if you follow the path of defense, you will always feel the need to defend yourself. I scrutinize the media for all the paranoia that is around these days. What we end up with are armchair vigilantes who feel the worlds problems can be fixed with some form of strong arming.
There are literally 100's of thousands of beautiful places to sail off to. Why would I want to choose some loser country that makes the 5:00pm. news every night.
Bottom line is not to worry so much on the crazies around the world as much as the destructiveness that fear is doing to yourself...JMHO...
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Old 19-06-2012, 11:17   #137
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

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Originally Posted by tropicalescape View Post
True!know yourself and know your enviroment !if times are bad here in the west they cant be any better in the developing world and to venture there without knowledge is sure folly!..DVC
Ehrm... may be time for a wake up call... while the "west" is going bankrupt, the developing world is mostly booming in comparison. Unemployment rate in Panama is negative... they are doing emigration campaigns in Spain to find more people. While the sorry state of world economy has it's impact, they are still well within positive numbers and growth in most of the upcoming markets in South/Central America and the Far East. Let's not forget Turkey either.

I think a better way of looking at things is that the countries I mention above are taking over World trade & finance, pushing the West down to second row... if they are lucky.

When the West gets back on their feet and start consuming, it's products and services from the above-mentioned countries that gets consumed and so they will become un-stoppable. In all fairness, it might be their turn, but I'm happy we saw this coming 10 years ago and emigrated from "the West".

cheers,
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Old 19-06-2012, 11:45   #138
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

I crewed aboard a boat named Sojourner that was approached by robbers / pirates whatever you want to call them. They were 6 or more street clothes dressed men in a open fishing skiff several miles from the mainland in the bay of honduras. When I noticed them we immediately turned around and made full speed for another sailing vessel a few miles to our south. This seemed to startle them because they just paced us staying off our beem a few hundred yards. I kept high activity on deck, lots of running around ( the owners stayed below with their child) we also kept constant vhs chatter with the other vessel named Ruby Yacht. When Ruby Yacht was within sight the skiff sped off. I think they were waiting for night? Or another skiff? Don't know.
Scared me bad, I was 20 years old.
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Old 19-06-2012, 12:11   #139
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Ehrm... may be time for a wake up call... while the "west" is going bankrupt, the developing world is mostly booming in comparison. Unemployment rate in Panama is negative... they are doing emigration campaigns in Spain to find more people. While the sorry state of world economy has it's impact, they are still well within positive numbers and growth in most of the upcoming markets in South/Central America and the Far East. Let's not forget Turkey either.

I think a better way of looking at things is that the countries I mention above are taking over World trade & finance, pushing the West down to second row... if they are lucky.

When the West gets back on their feet and start consuming, it's products and services from the above-mentioned countries that gets consumed and so they will become un-stoppable. In all fairness, it might be their turn, but I'm happy we saw this coming 10 years ago and emigrated from "the West".

cheers,
Nick.
Right .I have been looking for another word for 3rd world as that seems to sound bad to some folks, the top developing nations (BRICS) and the lessor ones ie Panama,Uryg.,Argen, all are doing well, but thats the way it should be..We,the west, cant have it good all the time, oh I just read where you mention "their turn" ya thats right...DVC
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Old 19-06-2012, 12:45   #140
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

For those who advocate taking a flare gun seriously as a form of defense against a properly armed person, please think again. Even if you had a direct shot and miraculously hit the target, you will be putting your life in danger by sparking anger within the person you shot. Take a look at this video:



The flare will only cause minor injury. If you put a shotgun shell in the gun, you WILL cause major injury to yourself.

I'm posting this with the thought of making sure everyone is aware of the consequences behind using a flare gun as a form of defense. Please be safe!
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Old 19-06-2012, 12:56   #141
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

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Originally Posted by Astral Blue View Post
For those who advocate taking a flare gun seriously as a form of defense against a properly armed person, please think again. Even if you had a direct shot and miraculously hit the target, you will be putting your life in danger by sparking anger within the person you shot. Take a look at this video:



The flare will only cause minor injury. If you put a shotgun shell in the gun, you WILL cause major injury to yourself.

I'm posting this with the thought of making sure everyone is aware of the consequences behind using a flare gun as a form of defense. Please be safe!
Sweet..I thought you had to have brains to operate one of those...DVC
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Old 19-06-2012, 13:17   #142
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

[QUOTE=s/v Jedi;973776]Ehrm... may be time for a wake up call... while the "west" is going bankrupt, the developing world is mostly booming in comparison. Unemployment rate in Panama is negative... they are doing emigration campaigns in Spain to find more people. While the sorry state of world economy has it's impact, they are still well within positive numbers and growth in most of the upcoming markets in South/Central America and the Far East. Let's not forget Turkey either.

I think a better way of looking at things is that the countries I mention above are taking over World trade & finance, pushing the West down to second row... if they are lucky.

When the West gets back on their feet and start consuming, it's products and services from the above-mentioned countries that gets consumed and so they will become un-stoppable. In all fairness, it might be their turn, but I'm happy we saw this coming 10 years ago and emigrated from "the West".

cheers,
Nick.[/QUOTE

Not being an avid movie-goer, I have wondered for awhile what the creature in your avatar was smoking. I think I finally know. If you removed the economic impact of the U.S. from the world, there would be an unfillable void that would devastatingly impact world economic conditions to the point of collapse. Today, the inter-connectedness of world markets is seen in the volatile meandering of the Dow Jones, Dax, Nikkei, LSE as it reflects events occuring in the U.S., Europe and the Middle East. They do not stand alone, but are pieces of a larger puzzle with the DJ at its core. And, the examples you used:1.) negative unemployment in Panama, 2.) emigration to Spain, 3.) South/Central American markets and 4.) Turkey as being examples of the "New World Order" are patently untrue. The GDP of Panama is 26.69B, Spain is 1.41T,the largest producer in SA,Brazil, is 2.9T and Turkey is 734.36B equal less than 5 Trillion dollars in combined GDP. The only real potential lies with China whose GDP is 5.9 trillion, still only 1/3 of US GDP, but the political volatility of their new emerging culture and their complete dependance on US trade/loans makes them the most susceptible to catastrophic economic collapse.The U.S. forecast for 2012 will be somewhere between 15-16 trillion dollars. There is an old adage that "you cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ear" and to believe that these countries will constitute the "New World Order" is not based on historical or economic fact. There is more to economic impact and dominance than merely perceived potential for the resources of a great economic power are both natural and human and some of these countries you mentioned(Central/South America, Turkey) are decidedly "Third World" by US/European standards.
Finally, there is no mainstrean, qualified economist that would ever mention any of these countries(except China) as a potential leader in the next millenia, especially Spain, which is now tottering the brink of collapse. And, the fact that you "emigrated" from the West ten years ago has no relevance to the economic discussion at hand and was a personal choice for you and your family. But, it is not correct to paint a picture of world economic conditions that do not represent the facts. This may be your opinion, but it is patently untrue.
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Old 19-06-2012, 13:28   #143
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

[QUOTE=rognvald;973857]
Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Ehrm... may be time for a wake up call... while the "west" is going bankrupt, the developing world is mostly booming in comparison. Unemployment rate in Panama is negative... they are doing emigration campaigns in Spain to find more people. While the sorry state of world economy has it's impact, they are still well within positive numbers and growth in most of the upcoming markets in South/Central America and the Far East. Let's not forget Turkey either.

I think a better way of looking at things is that the countries I mention above are taking over World trade & finance, pushing the West down to second row... if they are lucky.

When the West gets back on their feet and start consuming, it's products and services from the above-mentioned countries that gets consumed and so they will become un-stoppable. In all fairness, it might be their turn, but I'm happy we saw this coming 10 years ago and emigrated from "the West".

cheers,
Nick.[/QUOTE

Not being an avid movie-goer, I have wondered for awhile what the creature in your avatar was smoking. I think I finally know. If you removed the economic impact of the U.S. from the world, there would be an unfillable void that would devastatingly impact world economic conditions to the point of collapse. Today, the inter-connectedness of world markets is seen in the volatile meandering of the Dow Jones, Dax, Nikkei, LSE as it reflects events occuring in the U.S., Europe and the Middle East. They do not stand alone, but are pieces of a larger puzzle with the DJ at its core. And, the examples you used:1.) negative unemployment in Panama, 2.) emigration to Spain, 3.) South/Central American markets and 4.) Turkey as being examples of the "New World Order" are patently untrue. The GDP of Panama is 26.69B, Spain is 1.41T,the largest producer in SA,Brazil, is 2.9T and Turkey is 734.36B equal less than 5 Trillion dollars in combined GDP. The only real potential lies with China whose GDP is 5.9 trillion, still only 1/3 of US GDP, but the political volatility of their new emerging culture and their complete dependance on US trade/loans makes them the most susceptible to catastrophic economic collapse.The U.S. forecast for 2012 will be somewhere between 15-16 trillion dollars. There is an old adage that "you cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ear" and to believe that these countries will constitute the "New World Order" is not based on historical or economic fact. There is more to economic impact and dominance than merely perceived potential for the resources of a great economic power are both natural and human and some of these countries you mentioned(Central/South America, Turkey) are decidedly "Third World" by US/European standards.
Finally, there is no mainstrean, qualified economist that would ever mention any of these countries(except China) as a potential leader in the next millenia, especially Spain, which is now tottering the brink of collapse. And, the fact that you "emigrated" from the West ten years ago has no relevance to the economic discussion at hand and was a personal choice for you and your family. But, it is not correct to paint a picture of world economic conditions that do not represent the facts. This may be your opinion, but it is patently untrue.
I dont understand why so many think the USA is doomed,just because we take a break and give others a chance to have what they want they start calling us a declining state..jees oh yea I already knew everything you wrote I just didnt want to seem like a no it all,not that you do !LoL...DVC
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Old 19-06-2012, 13:34   #144
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GDP is not the whole truth. If I grow potatoes, sell them to you for 1000 bucks, you and your spend them, cutting hair , and finally the hairdresser goes to disneyland and spend the money, you just raised the GDP with 3000 bucks! We in the west are good on cutting hair, selling stuff from importer to distributor to chain main office to retailer to user.... But not in produsing the goods.....

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Old 19-06-2012, 13:44   #145
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

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GDP is not the whole truth. If I grow potatoes, sell them to you for 1000 bucks, you and your spend them, cutting hair , and finally the hairdresser goes to disneyland and spend the money, you just raised the GDP with 3000 bucks! We in the west are good on cutting hair, selling stuff from importer to distributor to chain main office to retailer to user.... But not in produsing the goods.....

.manitu
Were good at making the goods ,just have to pass the ball is all,and in turn the whole wide world gets a turn..I remember when everything cheap came from Japan,I went to buy a gift for my mom at Wayno(JP sp?) station a few years back and the cheapest thing cost 65.00 us...noting cheap there anymore ,same for Tiawan,Korea, soon it will be the same for India,China ,Brazil etc...The system works ,just be prepared for a little pain every now and then...DVC...Long live free enterprise!
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Old 19-06-2012, 13:51   #146
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

Quote:
Originally Posted by manitu View Post
GDP is not the whole truth. If I grow potatoes, sell them to you for 1000 bucks, you and your spend them, cutting hair , and finally the hairdresser goes to disneyland and spend the money, you just raised the GDP with 3000 bucks! We in the west are good on cutting hair, selling stuff from importer to distributor to chain main office to retailer to user.... But not in produsing the goods.....

.manitu
GDP represents the total goods and services produced in a country during an economic quarter or yearly. It is what most economists use to gauge the relative health of a country since a low GDP always indicates a poor and undeveloped country and a high GDP reflects strong economic activity and a stable and developed country (relatively). However, your final comment of us "not producing the goods" is painfully true since the health of a country depends upon a strong manufacturing base and we are destroying that base for our penchant for cheap prices. Can you believe we were discussing a robbery in Honduras?
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Old 19-06-2012, 14:06   #147
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

Uh, guys I haven't read all the post but what does this have to do with the original post? No no, don't answer that. Think that is how this bickering all got started.

The point of my post, that was on topic I might add ( do I get brownie points?) is safety in numbers helped us thwart a pirate attack.

Now, I'm starting a pool on how many post left before this thread gets closed...

I guess 4.
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Old 19-06-2012, 14:27   #148
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

Congratulations to all for a civil, intelligent discourse. This is an interesting topic that, not unlike most dialogues , has had some interesting meanderings. . . quite normal in these discussions. Let's keep this thread open for everyone to share their honest opinions and comments.
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Old 19-06-2012, 17:13   #149
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

Well its opened my eyes and I have learned a few things from it,

It even saved me from being arrested, fined and jailed,

It has given me an insight into what and how a lot of people think, Whether thats good or bad, I will keep to myself,

Cheers,
Brian,
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Old 20-06-2012, 08:00   #150
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Re: Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

The end result of all this is I see 4 basic camps.

Camp 1. I've never been robbed personnally, so I see no need for all the paranoia.

Camp 2. If you give the poor thieves your money they will leave you in peace. Besides we are incapable of carring enough fire power to make a difference.

Camp 3. Inadequate and half hearted defence is enough, (my chihuahua will take on 10 grown fully armed men)

Camp 4. I carry a small army in my back pocket, and enough ammo to take on each crook that has ever robbed a boat in the world,... all at once.

Camp 1. Good luck to you, may your good fortune and rose colored glasses get you safely through the rest of your life.

Camp 2. Sometimes it works to just hand over your hard earned wealth, sometimes it doesn't, but in both cases you are just encouraging them to rob your fellow cruisers who follow you, (after all your robbery went so smoothly it MUST be a good way to make a living).

Camp 3. Sadly those who have never had a direct encounter with a crook don't realise how inadequate their defence is, until it is put to the test.

The only real defence against an act of violence is to commit an act of violence with more force than the attack. Fighting a well muscled guy armed with a machete with a baseball bat sounds good in theory until you have actually tried it. And should he somehow lose he will just come back with a bigger machete.

Camp 4. If you ARE trained, (some ARE former LO and military), this method works good on crooks, if you are prepaired and alert, but draws the ire of local officials that like to think THEY are your line of defence, and take it personally if you think you need to defend yourself.

And upsets your fellow cruisers who are on vacation and don't even want to think about the chances of encountering crime.

It a sad reflection on the state of the world, that we even have this discussion. Yes, crime is still somewhat rare in most of the world, but what level is acceptable?

Is going out to someones boat and shoving a knife or gun in their face, and taking their stuff OK? Yet the chances of being caught and prosecuted are small.

And worse there is a significant crowd that makes excuses for them , (we are rich, they are poor, we caused it by flashing cash, stealing their fish etc....).

The good news is the number who have actually been robbed are small, if that wasn't the case more people would have more realistic views on how to react.
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