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Old 25-02-2013, 16:20   #31
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Re: Homemade Jacklines

Maybe my homemade solution is inadequate (in which case I hope to learn something here):

I found some new 3/4 Polyester line with the core removed -- so just the cover. It's bright yellow and looks like tubular webbing...but much thicker. Cost me $5 out of a bargain bin.

I tied a bowline-on-a-bight in the middle and looped it over the beefy cleat on the foredeck (same one as for my anchor), and run the two lines down the cabin sides to mooring cleats about 4 feet from the stern where I tie them off with...cleat hitches and a few half-hitches. "Sweating" (I think it's called) the line against the cleat I can get them fairly tight, but there's still quite a bit of stretch in the middle (total run about 25 ft.).

These lay flat and are easy to see. They would not keep my from going over even with a 3-ft. harness but I think I'd be suspended mostly out of the water (sounds like a fun experiment when the weather warms up!). My freeboard is only a few feet and I'm in good shape so would hope that I could get back on board (part 2 of the experiment).

Seems good in theory but what do I know! Possible improvements: I have some extra 1/4 Dyneema I've thought about running through the cover but then it wouldn't lie flat -- but might stretch less. I've also considered running the lines along and then up the cabin sides to loop around the mast before going forward to the bow. This means unclipping/reclipping to go forward of the mast but shortens the run (less stretch) and moves the lines closer to the center line -- especially near the bow where danger is higher and at the mast, which is usually as far as I need to go.

For the tether I bought the a child's harness at West -- same as the adult as far as I can tell but only one (locking) carabiner. I added a quick release of my own. It works fine but is a single 6' length (that I sometimes shorten with a figure-8 knot). For my next harness I'll splice them up using some three-strand or double-braid so I can make a double with the exact lengths I want.
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Old 25-02-2013, 16:23   #32
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Re: Homemade Jacklines

That must have been one tough woman. Thirst, chafe, exposure...
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Old 25-02-2013, 17:01   #33
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Re: Homemade Jacklines

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dsanduril View Post
and from that same source:



Hmm...
I suppose even simple things can be prone to stupidity. Trad climbers from the 70s and 80s used these knots perhaps millions of times, BUT, they were trained by other trad climbers to ALWAYS bounce on the knots with body weight until they were so tight they could be neither untied nor loosen with cycling.

The new generation of gym climbers never learned that, since they don't use them often, only now and then. Most runners are sewn and so they are never shown the proper way during their apprenticeship.

And actually, the correct knot is an overhand loop. I miss spoke, as climbers often use the 2 term alternately as they are so similar and the application so obvious to them.

And Wiki is not perfect; this very similar knot is that known as the "death knot."
http://www.animatedknots.com/flatove...matedknots.com

---

However, thanks for posting the warning. Knot craft with slippery materials is important.
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Old 25-02-2013, 17:22   #34
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Re: Homemade Jacklines

Back to post #1.

I'd recommend you get rid of that bronze clip. Those things can self open quite easily. Chances are it isn't too strong either.

Wichard and Kong both make one that is much safer. I use the Wichard.


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Old 25-02-2013, 17:27   #35
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Re: Homemade Jacklines

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I'm guessing that at least 99% of all sailboats are using nylon webbing for jacklines. How is that suddenly wrong?
Are you sure you don't mean polyester?
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Old 25-02-2013, 17:39   #36
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Re: Homemade Jacklines

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Originally Posted by Bash View Post
I'm guessing that at least 99% of all sailboats are using nylon webbing for jacklines. How is that suddenly wrong?
It's not wrong . . . but Polyester is better (for jacklines) because its more UV resistant.

We use tubular polyester webbing with spectra threaded don the center. There is just enough slack in the spectra to allow about a foot of polyester shock absorption before the spectra comes into play and stops you completely. The spectra is a 'fail safe' here . . .as its protected from both UK and chafe by the webbing and is strong as hell (8000lbs if I remember correctly).

Tethers do not have the constant exposure to UV and chafe that jacklines do, so the nylon vs polyester question is not so much of an issue. I happen to use spectra tethers because they are so much more compact and get in the way so much less that I am just honestly much more likely to have them with me than webbing ones. There are theoretical shock absorbing issues with them, but I have never seen a real life yachting case where it was a concern.... particularly if the jackline has some shock absorbing designed in it.

Regarding home stitching . . . it can work perfectly well if you are careful, but if you do the math you need a lot more stitches than most people think to get the proper breaking strength. I have seen several commercial harnesses and tethers that did not have the necessary amount of stitching to meet the ISAF breaking strength. You need +300 stitches with V92 thread (a common heavy duty thread size used in this application)

Regarding shackles at the ends of the tethers . . . neither of the best normal ones (shown in the post above) are truly "quick release under load". They are fine for the jackline end, but a 'trigger shackle' (from sparcraft, tylaska or wichard' is better for the harness end. These trigger shackles are also smaller and less bulky.
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Old 25-02-2013, 17:40   #37
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There seems to be some misused terms on this thread or maybe it's me. Vancouver25 states " For my next harness I'll splice them up using some three-strand or double-braid so I can make a double with the exact lengths I want". It appears you mean a tether. I can imagine how uncomfortable a harness made of three-strand would be. A harness is something that wraps around your body that you attach a tether to, quick release end, the other end of the tether is attached to the jack lines or a hard point. As stated by others I can agree with a debate about life raft or no life raft, EPIRB or no EPIRB. But for what, $80 for two 45' jack lines, I'll spend the extra. FWIW, I was taught to wet the jack lines, stretch them as tight as you can and tie them off using the appropriate knot to a suitable hard point, a cleat or pad eye.
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Old 25-02-2013, 18:39   #38
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I'm a little confused. A few months ago there was a conversation about jacklines. There was a comment make that jack lines should not be made of rope i.e. spectra because if you step on a round rope you are more likely to slip vs a flat web jackline.

Just trying to learn....

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Old 25-02-2013, 18:54   #39
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Re: Homemade Jacklines

You can feed a piece of 3/16 Spectra or Amsteel through a tube webbing and It will lay flat underfoot. You do have to sew in the ends to the tubing though.
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Old 25-02-2013, 18:59   #40
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Re: Homemade Jacklines

Still the case. Most use the flat polyester stuff. A few here are recommending spectra for the tether line only because it is thinner and lighter than a polyester or nylon strap.
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Old 25-02-2013, 19:38   #41
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Re: Homemade Jacklines

Red Sky caught me! I meant splice up a tether, not a harness...should have proof read. To be fair, I've seen an expert climber in South America rig this knot up (just to show off, but it looked cool and he did it quick!): Hasty Webbing (Emergency) Harness | How to Make a Hasty Webbing (Emergency) Harness | Rescue Knots
Might not be comfortable in 3-strand but in a pinch (there's a pun there somewhere)? I've also seen another chest-high knot that was a little more complicated but can't remember the real name.
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Old 25-02-2013, 19:52   #42
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Re: Homemade Jacklines

[QUOTE=estarzinger;1168661]We use tubular polyester webbing with spectra threaded don the center. There is just enough slack in the spectra to allow about a foot of polyester shock absorption before the spectra comes into play and stops you completely. The spectra is a 'fail safe' here . . .as its protected from both UK and chafe by the webbing and is strong as hell (8000lbs if I remember correctly).

How do you make up the ends, for attachment, and tensioning.?? I am trying to envisage a spectra spliced loop with a webbing cover?? I don't think any knot with spectra inside webbing would work.

lee
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Old 25-02-2013, 20:08   #43
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Re: Homemade Jacklines

There are a variety of ways to measure safety.

A home made tether is better than none, and is safer.

In one case I made a bunch of home made tethers, about six. Didn't have jacklines but use tha tether and pre position tethers so I clip from one to another. That way I have no excuse for not having one on.

In another case, bigger boat, has jack lines, got professional tethers. I have a mid point attachment in the jacklines to help control stretch and lateral motion.

Both work, just differently.

No tether is any good if you don't wear it. That is the big step, all others are refinements and improvements.
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Old 25-02-2013, 20:26   #44
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Re: Homemade Jacklines

Quote:
Originally Posted by vancouver25 View Post
Red Sky caught me! I meant splice up a tether, not a harness...should have proof read. To be fair, I've seen an expert climber in South America rig this knot up (just to show off, but it looked cool and he did it quick!): Hasty Webbing (Emergency) Harness | How to Make a Hasty Webbing (Emergency) Harness | Rescue Knots
Might not be comfortable in 3-strand but in a pinch (there's a pun there somewhere)? I've also seen another chest-high knot that was a little more complicated but can't remember the real name.
A seat harness is quite dangerous for use as a deck harness. Dragging in the water it will drown you for certain as it will not pull your head up; this has been tried. A seat harness is only used up that mast and for similar elevated work. You need a chest harness. And be ware; most climbing chest harnesses are for use ONLY in combination with a seat harness and are useless alone. Sailing chest harnesses are different.
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Old 25-02-2013, 20:36   #45
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Re: Homemade Jacklines

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It's not wrong . . . but Polyester is better (for jacklines) because its more UV resistant.
Clearly. The nylon will rot in the sun in a single year..

A set of 40' polyester jacklines from West Marine costs $84. An equivalent amount of tubular webbing from REI costs $29. It's no wonder so many sailors use nylon.

On my first few boats I used nylon exclusively. Now I can afford the polyester, and that's what I use. Store-bought, even. But for someone on a budget, especially someone who is only going to use jacklines 5-10 days per year, nylon will do the job. Just remember to get them out of the sun the moment you don't need them on deck.
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