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Old 16-09-2016, 07:40   #136
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Re: Has anyone ever fallen over tethered and tried to pull themselves back in?

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Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post

A competent sailor should be able to safely operate a properly found sailboat in open water in 20 knots in the average 20 ft boat, 30 knots in the average 30 ft, 40 knots in the average 40 ft. (Add another 10 knots if the skipper is "fairly experienced".)

(...)
I accept this. And I can hear what you are saying. I also agree with a larger portion of what you are saying.

How many times have you been well offshore in sustained 40 or 50 knots of wind? I have been a couple of times.

I would not bet any money on my ability to quickly gybe or tack an average 40 footer set up for the wind of 40+ knots and fully developed sea state. Not sure if I qualify as a competent sailor nor a fairly experienced one. The way I feel it every time the wind reaches 40 knots I feel marginally competent and fairly inexperienced ... ;-)

I have extensively sailed racing boats round the cans before we started sailing offshore. Sure thing, with a boat set up for rapid and random maneuvers (as one is on the harbour, on the coastal hops or between the cans) it is no problem to execute any MOB operation with great accuracy, also in rough conditions.

But I am less convinced these truths are easily translatable into MOB practice in open waters and with a cruising crew.

Cheers,
b.
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Old 16-09-2016, 09:40   #137
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Re: Has anyone ever fallen over tethered and tried to pull themselves back in?

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
I accept this. And I can hear what you are saying. I also agree with a larger portion of what you are saying.

How many times have you been well offshore in sustained 40 or 50 knots of wind? I have been a couple of times.

I would not bet any money on my ability to quickly gybe or tack an average 40 footer set up for the wind of 40+ knots and fully developed sea state. Not sure if I qualify as a competent sailor nor a fairly experienced one. The way I feel it every time the wind reaches 40 knots I feel marginally competent and fairly inexperienced ... ;-)

I have extensively sailed racing boats round the cans before we started sailing offshore. Sure thing, with a boat set up for rapid and random maneuvers (as one is on the harbour, on the coastal hops or between the cans) it is no problem to execute any MOB operation with great accuracy, also in rough conditions.

But I am less convinced these truths are easily translatable into MOB practice in open waters and with a cruising crew.

Cheers,
b.
I hear you.

My arbitrary controlled gybe cut-off limit in knots is LOA in feet. Beyond that I usually chicken gybe (tack from a broad reach through the wind and onto the opposite broad reach).

Not that one can't gybe in higher, it's just too hard on the boat if one screws up.

I agree that once one hits this wind range, sailing maneuvers become more "serious". ie, it is important to execute them well.

In my experience, the windspeed limit (in knots) for sailing to windward is about 25% higher than LOA in feet.

In my opinion, it is actually dangerous to run the engine in these conditions.

Too likely to suck up stuff off the bottom of the tank or heel so much the engine isn't getting sufficient lubrication.

We race cruising boats in LO PHRF, short course and long distance.

Certainly a cruising boat is not generally as nimble, but I can't imagine why one could not sail it properly in these conditions, unless there is something seriously wrong like:

1. Lack of skill.
2. Over-loaded.
3. Not rigged properly.
4. Blown out sails.
5. Not trimmed properly.
6. Stuff not being stowed safely.
7. Not maintained properly.

These are not the natural limits of the boat, they are the self-imposed limits the owner has established, which could prove to be a safety issue.
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Old 16-09-2016, 13:03   #138
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Re: Has anyone ever fallen over tethered and tried to pull themselves back in?

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Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
In my experience, the windspeed limit (in knots) for sailing to windward is about 25% higher than LOA in feet.

In my opinion, it is actually dangerous to run the engine in these conditions.
Well I have run an engine in rough weather, it did fine and I was damned glad I had it. I don't think we are talking about running an engine while you are sailing at 25 or 30 degrees of heel are we?
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Old 16-09-2016, 14:32   #139
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Re: Has anyone ever fallen over tethered and tried to pull themselves back in?

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Well I have run an engine in rough weather, it did fine and I was damned glad I had it. I don't think we are talking about running an engine while you are sailing at 25 or 30 degrees of heel are we?
My boat's optimum heel angle is between 20 and 25 degrees, so yes.

Any boat sailing at 15 degrees hit by a gust goes to 25, at least until the skipper can spill some wind.

But the at any rate picking up crud and stalling is a reality when the boat is pitching.

I have a friend who racked up $60K in damages because they were relying on the engine to crawl off a lee shore and it quit. They ended up grounding on rocks in 40 knots. Didn't have their main reefing gear set up. Skipper and wife were down with Mal de Mar. Friends crewing at the helm when the boat ran aground. Cumulative errors. I was supposed to race on that boat the next day. After receiving there text I ended calling the salvor for them.
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