Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 16-06-2014, 14:31   #16
Registered User
 
S/V Alchemy's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Toronto
Boat: Custom 41' Steel Pilothouse Cutter
Posts: 4,576
Re: Handheld DSC VHF vs. PLB for MOB

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
I really, really wish someone would make a really compact DSC VHF handheld which would fit in my lifejacket pocket.
Uh...I've had this for several years: The only issue is that it's noticeably gutless for distance when compared to my preferred cockpit handheld, the HX 850 or 851: But the 471 is a proper DSC VHF, even if it doesn't last all night on a charge (or float, which is a consideration). It certainly can fit in a pocket, however: it's pretty compact and light.
__________________

__________________
Can't sleep? Read www.alchemy2009.blogspot.com for fast relief. Can't read? Avoid www.volumesofsalt.blogspot.com, because it's just personal reviews of sea books.
S/V Alchemy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-06-2014, 10:15   #17
Eternal Member
 
monte's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Australia
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 3,650
Images: 1
Re: Handheld DSC VHF vs. PLB for MOB

Just an update on the R10 AIS SART. We now have it working automatically with the spinlock deckvests after a bit of fine tuning/adjustment.
__________________

__________________
monte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-06-2014, 12:57   #18
Registered User
 
S/V Alchemy's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Toronto
Boat: Custom 41' Steel Pilothouse Cutter
Posts: 4,576
Re: Handheld DSC VHF vs. PLB for MOB

Quote:
Originally Posted by monte View Post
Just an update on the R10 AIS SART. We now have it working automatically with the spinlock deckvests after a bit of fine tuning/adjustment.
Good to know. I like the idea for self-rescue should one take a tumble beyond practical SAR range.
__________________
Can't sleep? Read www.alchemy2009.blogspot.com for fast relief. Can't read? Avoid www.volumesofsalt.blogspot.com, because it's just personal reviews of sea books.
S/V Alchemy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-06-2014, 13:31   #19
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,243
Re: Handheld DSC VHF vs. PLB for MOB

Quote:
Originally Posted by transmitterdan View Post

If you are a single hander MOB then EPIRB is your best hope (but your odds are not very good IMHO). PLB is a distant second.
Given that I always sail single-handed with the PLB in my waist pack, and the EPIRB is fixed to the boat and much too large to fit in a pocket, this is obviously complete nonsense. Unless you are suggesting that it is practical to go and pick up the EPIRB in advance, before falling overboard?

Of course an EPIRB has longer battery life, but the battery life of the PLB exceeds the survival time in SF bay by a factor of 20, so it would seem to be sufficient.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the most obvious rescue aid : flares. I have a waist pack for single handing that as well as the PLB, contains a small pack of kayaking flares.
__________________
MarkSF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-06-2014, 13:31   #20
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,745
Re: Handheld DSC VHF vs. PLB for MOB

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy View Post
Uh...I've had this for several years: The only issue is that it's noticeably gutless for distance when compared to my preferred cockpit handheld, the HX 850 or 851: But the 471 is a proper DSC VHF, even if it doesn't last all night on a charge (or float, which is a consideration). It certainly can fit in a pocket, however: it's pretty compact and light.
If I'm not mistaken, that one doesn't have a built-in GPS. So to make a DSC distress call, you have to manually put in your coordinates. Not very good for MOB situation.
__________________
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 18-06-2014, 13:36   #21
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,243
Re: Handheld DSC VHF vs. PLB for MOB

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy View Post
Uh...I've had this for several years: The only issue is that it's noticeably gutless for distance when compared to my preferred cockpit handheld, the HX 850 or 851: But the 471 is a proper DSC VHF, even if it doesn't last all night on a charge (or float, which is a consideration). It certainly can fit in a pocket, however: it's pretty compact and light.
The Standard Horizon 471 doesn't have a GPS built-in, so it's essentially useless for kayaking or MOB, as the GPS position is of course the most salient bit of information. The USCG reports that most DSC calls are incomplete.
__________________
MarkSF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-06-2014, 14:21   #22
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Seattle
Boat: Cal 40
Posts: 2,401
Images: 7
Re: Handheld DSC VHF vs. PLB for MOB

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
If I'm not mistaken, that one doesn't have a built-in GPS. So to make a DSC distress call, you have to manually put in your coordinates. Not very good for MOB situation.
The bottom pictures at the top of the vhf have GPS inscribed on them, I wonder if that means anything.

If the person can see the mast for miles anyway, AIS/GPS isn't really needed, just have the person in the water tell the person on the boat where to go.
__________________
cal40john is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 18-06-2014, 15:01   #23
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,243
Re: Handheld DSC VHF vs. PLB for MOB

The bottom pictures are of the 851, which does have a built-in GPS, but is rather bulky. The top one is of the much smaller 471, which doesn't have a GPS.

Perhaps the near future will bring the size down.
__________________
MarkSF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-06-2014, 15:04   #24
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Re: Handheld DSC VHF vs. PLB for MOB

Quote:
Originally Posted by cal40john View Post
The bottom pictures at the top of the vhf have GPS inscribed on them, I wonder if that means anything.



If the person can see the mast for miles anyway, AIS/GPS isn't really needed, just have the person in the water tell the person on the boat where to go.

You might have a look at talking into a VHF wearing an inflated lifejacket in any sort of aggressive seaway. See how that works for you !

Dave
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-06-2014, 08:49   #25
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,745
Re: Handheld DSC VHF vs. PLB for MOB

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkSF View Post
The bottom pictures are of the 851, which does have a built-in GPS, but is rather bulky. The top one is of the much smaller 471, which doesn't have a GPS.

Perhaps the near future will bring the size down.
I own the HX851 and am aware that it has GPS. It is too bulky to keep on your person and I was complaining that there aren't smaller ones. The person who posted the photos you refer to was stating that there are smaller ones, namely the 471. I was pointing out that the smaller one doesn't have GPS and is therefore not much use in a MOB situation (or any other, probably).
__________________
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 26-06-2014, 08:52   #26
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,745
Re: Handheld DSC VHF vs. PLB for MOB

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
You might have a look at talking into a VHF wearing an inflated lifejacket in any sort of aggressive seaway. See how that works for you !

Dave
I reckon pushing the DSC distress button will not be harder than activating a PLB (which requires releasing the antenna and holding up to the sky!), or activating any other rescue signalling device.

Furthermore, a DSC handheld can be interrogated by other radios without any action at all on the part of the casualty (Position Request).
__________________
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 26-06-2014, 12:01   #27
Registered User
 
S/V Alchemy's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Toronto
Boat: Custom 41' Steel Pilothouse Cutter
Posts: 4,576
Re: Handheld DSC VHF vs. PLB for MOB

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
If I'm not mistaken, that one doesn't have a built-in GPS. So to make a DSC distress call, you have to manually put in your coordinates. Not very good for MOB situation.
The 471S is DSC-only, although it can read a NMEA 0183 lat/lon from a plotter when it's sitting in its charge cradle, and from there will include that info in the DSC call. The 850 and 851 models have the option to have the GPS internal module on; the lat/lon. is subsequently part of the DSC string.

I usually don't have the GPS on in my 850 as it runs the battery down faster, but I've used it for a quick check if my handheld GPS (which acquires slower than the SH 850) is off or is getting batteries changed.

It's been some time since I bought them, but that's my recollection.
__________________
Can't sleep? Read www.alchemy2009.blogspot.com for fast relief. Can't read? Avoid www.volumesofsalt.blogspot.com, because it's just personal reviews of sea books.
S/V Alchemy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-06-2014, 12:10   #28
Registered User
 
S/V Alchemy's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Toronto
Boat: Custom 41' Steel Pilothouse Cutter
Posts: 4,576
Re: Handheld DSC VHF vs. PLB for MOB

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
I own the HX851 and am aware that it has GPS. It is too bulky to keep on your person and I was complaining that there aren't smaller ones. The person who posted the photos you refer to was stating that there are smaller ones, namely the 471. I was pointing out that the smaller one doesn't have GPS and is therefore not much use in a MOB situation (or any other, probably).
Horses for courses. As I stated, if you have the 471S in its cradle, and the cradle is hooked to a GPS plotter, the latest plots are stored aboard the VHF. So if you hole the boat and start to sink, you take the fully charged VHF on deck and hit the red button, you will not logically be very far from your last recorded position.

I would find that useful in both an abandon ship and a MOB situation, although I do admit that the 471S is somewhat superseded by better, more recent radios, it's still getting plenty of use in our cockpit. My ratio of handheld to base VHF use is 90/10 on my 33 footer, but in the pilothouse 41 footer, it's more 50/50.

I also don't find the 850/851 too bulky, but then I'm willing to trade compactness for "floating".
__________________
Can't sleep? Read www.alchemy2009.blogspot.com for fast relief. Can't read? Avoid www.volumesofsalt.blogspot.com, because it's just personal reviews of sea books.
S/V Alchemy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-06-2014, 12:57   #29
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,243
Re: Handheld DSC VHF vs. PLB for MOB

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
I own the HX851 and am aware that it has GPS. It is too bulky to keep on your person and I was complaining that there aren't smaller ones. The person who posted the photos you refer to was stating that there are smaller ones, namely the 471. I was pointing out that the smaller one doesn't have GPS and is therefore not much use in a MOB situation (or any other, probably).
Hopefully the manufacturers are hearing this and working on smaller radios. I'd like a DSC one with GPS and AIS that floats and is half the size of the 851. With 25W transmit power.
__________________
MarkSF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2014, 03:42   #30
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,745
Re: Handheld DSC VHF vs. PLB for MOB

For those who doubt that a PLB is of any use at all in a MOB situation, here is an actual story of someone rescued with the aid of one:

BYM Product and Industry News

And in the frigid waters off Cornwall, too.

I have been told by Dave on here and others for a long time that PLBs take too long to evoke a real response to be of much use in an MOB situation, and that always sounded right to me. But here is at least one case that shows that a PLB might not be entirely useless.
__________________

__________________
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
dsc, mob, vhf

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Raymarine E80 + AIS 650 + McMurdo AIS PLB MOB rgleason Marine Electronics 1 24-04-2014 18:26
Icom M92D DSC Handheld Dockhead Marine Electronics 31 16-12-2013 21:27
Handheld VHF with GPS/DSC or Personal AIS? simonpickard Marine Electronics 14 13-12-2013 11:48
With Handheld VHF with DSC any need for fixed unit? simonpickard Marine Electronics 37 10-12-2013 16:56
DSC Position Request from Handheld with Boat's MMSI Captain Bill Marine Electronics 74 16-02-2013 17:09



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:06.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.