Givens Life Rafts Filed for Bankruptcy

[chrisjs]

Probably of interest to anybody owning a Given's life raft, apparently the company recently filed for bankruptcy. In spite of an apparent decent product quality, there have been ongoing complaints about their service and delivery over the past couple of years. I guess a company is only as good as its reputation!! Hopefully, existing Givens customers will be able to get service/parts elsewhere.

[ssMakai]

I am interested as I have prepaid for one of their products expecting delivery in May 2012. I live in Australia and am fitting my boat out in the Virginia USA.
So can anyone advise me as to what steps I should take? Is there anyone else in a similar situation. Friendly advice sort.

[chrisjs]

Hi
I keep my boat in Fall River near to Tiverton, where Givens is based. If you like I would be willing to drive by there and see if there is any sign of life. Their phone is "temporarily" disconnected. It would be helpful is you would let me have your name and any other info needed for identifying your raft, just in case I run into anybody who knows whats what! I'll also contact my raft service people and ask if they know the situation.
Chris

[hellosailor]

Makai, there are several types of commercial bankruptcy filings in the US but I would guess you are now what is called an "unsecured creditor". And unless someone snaps up their business including all liabilities--which is rare--you're screwed. You will see neither raft nor refund.

Unless you paid for it by credit card, in which case contact the card company immediately and ask them to issue a credit because the goods were not and will not be shipped or delivered. They'll have a procedure you must follow for that.

But if you paid any other way, you may have lost it.

If Chris can dig anything up for you--that's about the only other chance. Sometimes there is literally something in the loading dock with your name on it, and it can be forwarded to you. Most times...not so good.

[Curmudgeon]

I have a Givens and their service is indeed lousy--very slow. But their rafts are good. Hopefully LRSE (which is right down the street from Givens) or a similar outfit will be able to service these rafts going forward if Givens goes belly up.

[chrisjs]

Went by Givens facility today - looks quiet small in a mini mall next to a dry cleaner.
Totally dead today though the cleaner said that people do show up from time to time but no particular schedule. There were what appeared to be a couple of valise type rafts in boxes near the front door. Perhaps one is yours Makai??? I guess if I were in your situation, I would try to find out who is handling the liquidation. If I hear anything I'll let you know.
Chris

[ssMakai]

Thanks Chris,
You are fantanstic and many thanks for going out of your way. My boat is called Makai and the delivery address is Alan Thilo S/V Makai, Schroeder Yacht Systems or Stingray point boat works yard has changed hands, 19047 General Puller Hwy, Deltaville, VA 23043.
The order is for 6 person delux offshore my email is athilo3 AT gmail.com
The administrator seems not to be monitoring the still active web site

[Keolakai1]

Chris, you aer wonderful for checking out the Givens store for Makai. We too have ordered form them, but it's actually just a very expensive SS rack for our raft....paid in full, expected in May. If you happen to pass when there's someone there or if there's any signage showing contact information, that would be most helpful...we sent a cash bank draft 2 weeks ago to them. This is awful!
Thank you

[Keolakai1]

Thread from Sailnet about Givens Marine:
GIVENS MARINE Manufacturing ??????? - SailNet Community

They went into Receivorship on March 19th...they took our money on March 28th!!!

Lawyer for defendant is: Diane Finkle of Winograd Shine Land & Finkle, P.C., 123 Dyer Street, Providence, Rhode Island 02903 E-mail: dfinkle@wslf-law.com

I plan on bombarding her with requests for my product!

[ssMakai]

Thanks may be some pressure can be exerted I do not know US law but it sounds as though they were trading while insolvent ------ I think they have been doing this for the last 12+ months, maybe not technically but in reality so. Hopefully through this thread we may collect some other names facing losses

[CarlF]

I am not an attorney or expert, but I think the situation is not good.

Givens has gone into Receivership. It's like bankruptcy and often used in Rhode Island. Diane Finkle is the "Receiver" appointed by the court to distribute whatever can be found for the creditors. No one ever likes the way the pie gets divided in receivership - mostly because the pie always turns out to be much smaller than anyone knew.

Here is the relevant part of the court notice for ssMakai and Keolakai1

All creditors or other claimants hereby are ordered to file under oath with the Receiver at Winograd Shine Land & Finkle, P.C., 123 Dyer Street, Providence, Rhode Island 02903, on or before the 26th day of July, 2012, a statement setting forth their claims, including, but without limiting the generality of the foregoing, the name and address of the claimant, the nature and amount of such claim, a statement of any security or lien held by the claimant to which such claimant is or claims to be entitled, and also a statement as to any preference or priority which the claimant claims to be entitled to over the claims of any other or all other claimants or creditor.

As Receivers are court appointees working for the creditors, they try to be helpful. I'd get in touch with Ms. Finkle and ask exactly how you should file as a creditor. As this is now in the hands of a court, nothing will happen quickly. Creditors don't even have to file until July 26. This will probably go on for a few years. There is really nothing you can do to accelerate the process or get individual treatment.

While it won't help here, many marine related companies run on very little capitalization Failure is a constant risk. If you have any doubts use a credit card or pay COD. UPS charges just $11 to handle a COD transaction. And keep any deposits small so you can bargain with the unpaid balance.

Still, it's a shame to see a company with a great product like Givens go down like this.


Carl

[hellosailor]

Makai, US law doesn't really govern bankruptcies like this, which is at the State not Federal level of our legal system.

Trading while insolvent might affect a publicly owned company with the SEC regulations, but there's nothing illegal about it AFAIK in any "simple" state or federal law. Perhaps in a regulated industry, but nothing for business in general.

What are termed "unsecrued creditors", folks that the company simply owes goods, services, or payments to, including cash customers, are generally the last ones to receive anything left over from a bankruptcy/receivership. If there was enough money to pay off the secured creditors--they wouldn't be in bankruptcy in the first place.

The only safety net for this in the US is to purchase with a credit card, not cash or check or wire, and then the credit card company taeks the loss IF the cardmember contacts them promptly and follows procedure.

As per Carl's post, anyone who is now stuck, should contact the receiver. SOMEtimes there is something to be shaken loose, or stock/inventory on hand, and they can do something. But those two options (credit card company and receiver) are all there is.

Yes, the bankruptcy laws in the US allow a lot of people to get hurt.

[Curmudgeon]

A state receivership may not be the worst result for creditors. For those interested in U.S. law on this topic:
http://www.abiworld.org/BestofABI/ma...ershipMemo.pdf

[Nibiruwayne]

Hi everyone, to all givens owners( I am one also)
I bought a new 9 man ocean model in 06'. Our nicer press fittings on each end of the ss painter was not secure. Both end loops of the painter failed when we gave a little tug against each. This was just before departing guernsey enroute to la coruna, Spain across the Bay of Biscay. If you own one check BOTH ends of your painter. Had we deployed, the rFt would have floated away.
Cheers
Nibiruwayne

[ssMakai]

I must really thank Chris and Carlf, and of course Cruisers Forum without which this kind of boarder-less dissemination of information could not occur.
In Australia we have a simple rule 'the first duty of lawyers and such is to the court' but I do not know how it is in the USA.
With regards to the CreditCard I used a USA (NY NY) issued and account based one; I will post the outcome.

I have received the following with the required documentation attached.

"I am not representing Givens marine Mfg. Rather I am the state-court appointed receiver of the company to liquidate all of its assets. Please see the attached creditor letter and proof of claim form for you to fill out. There were no life rafts completed or in progress when I was appointed by the Court. I attach a copy of the Petition that the company filed before the Court. This is very much like a Chapter 7 bankruptcy proceeding, but in state court. I have no funds on hand and I have been marketing the company, but seem to have no interest in the assets as an entirety. Thus it looks like we will be conducting a public auction sale of the assets.
***Please note our new firm name, Winograd Shine Land & Finkle, P.C., and my new email address, dfinkle ATwslf-law.com,for future correspondence.***
Diane Finkle, Esq.
Winograd Shine Land & Finkle, P.C.
123 Dyer Street
Providence, RI 02903-3980
Telephone: (401) 273-8300
Facsimile: (401) 272-5728
Dfinkle AT wslf-law.com"
SSMakai