Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 13-09-2018, 05:23   #1
Registered User
 
Suijin's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Annapolis MD; currently in Luperon DR
Boat: Valiant 40
Posts: 4,456
Gale rider - How much chain?

I need to replace the chain for my Galerider and Im curious if anyone has any real world experience deploying one in anger and resultant advice. Boat is 40 14 tons loaded. Galerider is 36, acquired primarily for emergency steering. I have two 300 lines for deployment. How much chain and what size is appropriate for use as a drogue to control speed in a following sea (vs as emergency steering)?

Also, Ive only had experience deploying a drogue with a bridle. In terms of using it to slow the boat in a following sea Ive read that securing it off one quarter is preferred. That would in fact be much easier on my specific boat.

Im assuming that doing so mitigates fish tailing and perhaps shock loading as well, but straight off the stern strikes me as safer with respect to potential broaching in a less organized sea. Comments?
__________________

__________________
"Having a yacht is reason for being more cheerful than most." -Kurt Vonnegut
Suijin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-09-2018, 06:07   #2
Registered User
 
Privilege's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Bermuda
Boat: Privilege 435
Posts: 546
Images: 12
Re: Gale rider - How much chain?

The guy from Fiorentino did a great seven drogue comparison test...with and without chain. You Tube; 'Drogue Comparison'. It'll give you a good idea about the effects of chain.

I hope this helps.
__________________

Privilege is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13-09-2018, 06:41   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Mexico
Boat: Passport 40
Posts: 286
Re: Gale rider - How much chain?

Im interested in this topic too, and I have more or less exactly the same question. I have a similar boat (40ft Passport, 22k lbs), and the same GaleRider. I purchased it as a possible way to steer in an emergency and also as a way to help to heave to and slow down the boat even further, as described in Morgan's Cloud article:

https://www.morganscloud.com/2013/06...ile-heaved-to/

I have 250ft of 5/8 line for this, and I still haven't purchased any chain. I was thinking of 20ft of 3/8 chain. For steering, I'm not sure if I have enough line at this time, I haven't really tried it, I believe I have enough line to try out. I need a backup anchor rode to place my Fortress if needed (I would reuse those 20ft of chain here), so that could work as another 250ft of line.
gaucho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-09-2018, 07:30   #4
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29 49.16 N 82 25.82 W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 13,891
Re: Gale rider - How much chain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Privilege View Post
The guy from Fiorentino did a great seven drogue comparison test...with and without chain. You Tube; 'Drogue Comparison'. It'll give you a good idea about the effects of chain.

I hope this helps.
Thank yous. Very interesting to see comparison of several different types of drogues in the water.

A couple of comments. One or two of the drogues looked like toys and not really suitable for a real boat in a storm. The weakness of these was noted in their comments.

The method of deployment I think was a bit flawed IE dumping the drogue, line and chain overboard in a wad. I think proper deployment would be to feed the drogue out in a more controlled manner which would have eliminated some of the tangling problems.

While the data generated was very interesting and potentially very useful the tests were in a steady state mode. At sea a boat will alternately surf and stall in following seas so any drogue will also alternately catch and drag then slow and probably sink the tighten and drag again. A more in depth test showing how the various drogues work in that kind of situation would be even more interesting.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.

Sometimes it's necessary to state the obvious for the benefit of the oblivious.

Rust is the poor man's Loctite.
skipmac is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13-09-2018, 07:59   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Mexico
Boat: Passport 40
Posts: 286
Re: Gale rider - How much chain?

Even though I think that the tests ran are good, after watching his drogue for steering video, Im left a bit disappointed at his presentation of the "competition". I understand he has to sell his product, but when the testing is pretty skewed, I stop trusting the guy. I work in advertising. Apart from the Pepsi Challenge in the 80s, I see no point in comparing yourself trying to be objective (but then not being objective). When he deploys the Gale Rider, he pays out a lot of line. He also claims the drogue HAS to be attached midship, which is not true, it's just what Gale Rider suggests as the ideal pivot point. The GaleRider can potentially be attached to the stern as much as his Shark drogue. Maybe the Shark drogue does a better job being closer, agreed, specially with the lack of chain. But he over does it by paying the GaleRider really far. If you look at Gale Riders video, it seems "as easy" as the Shark; still the Shark might be better, for sure.

So my point is, if this is the way he performs this comparisons, I really don't find the comparisons worth that much.

Shark drogue video:


GaleRider video:


Judge yourselves.
gaucho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-09-2018, 08:47   #6
Senior Cruiser
 
hpeer's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Boat: Murray 33-Chouette & Pape Steelmaid-44-Safara-both steel cutters
Posts: 5,255
Re: Gale rider - How much chain?

I wrote the MFG in this topic and they wrote back NO chain.

You can request the whole instruction directly from Landfall Navigation.

LANDFALL
151 Harvard Avenue Stamford, CT 06902 1.800.941.2219 LandfallNavigation.com


3. RIGGING THE GALERIDER: The GALERIDER is ALWAYS deployed and used from the STERN of the boat. A nylon anchor line appropriate for anchoring with a storm anchor is ideal for GALERIDER deployment. Double braid Nylon is preferred. Such an anchor line normally ends with a heavy thimble and shackle, good for attachment to the GALERIDER swivel. No chain should be used. The minimum length should be 350 feet, with optimum deployment expected between 200 and 300 feet to fit the wave pattern. The shackle end of the deployment line should be led aft and off the boat, as it will be used, before it is attached to the GALERIDER. The deployment line may be led through an enclosed, rounded rail chock or directly out over the transom with some protection against chafe on the pulpit or other obstructions. The other end of the deployment line is normally secured to the largest cockpit winch for strength, deployment ease, and later ease of retrieval. After the deployment line has been led properly, the shackle end should be carried forward, outside the lifelines and rigging, and secured to the GALERIDER.
hpeer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-09-2018, 08:59   #7
Registered User
 
Suijin's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Annapolis MD; currently in Luperon DR
Boat: Valiant 40
Posts: 4,456
Re: Gale rider - How much chain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hpeer View Post
I wrote the MFG in this topic and they wrote back NO chain.

You can request the whole instruction directly from Landfall Navigation.

LANDFALL
151 Harvard Avenue Stamford, CT 06902 1.800.941.2219 LandfallNavigation.com


3. RIGGING THE GALERIDER: The GALERIDER is ALWAYS deployed and used from the STERN of the boat. A nylon anchor line appropriate for anchoring with a storm anchor is ideal for GALERIDER deployment. Double braid Nylon is preferred. Such an anchor line normally ends with a heavy thimble and shackle, good for attachment to the GALERIDER swivel. No chain should be used. The minimum length should be 350 feet, with optimum deployment expected between 200 and 300 feet to fit the wave pattern. The shackle end of the deployment line should be led aft and off the boat, as it will be used, before it is attached to the GALERIDER. The deployment line may be led through an enclosed, rounded rail chock or directly out over the transom with some protection against chafe on the pulpit or other obstructions. The other end of the deployment line is normally secured to the largest cockpit winch for strength, deployment ease, and later ease of retrieval. After the deployment line has been led properly, the shackle end should be carried forward, outside the lifelines and rigging, and secured to the GALERIDER.


Interesting. This would appear to conflict with general advice to both use chain as well as longer line to keep the drogue from skipping or pulling out of waves.
__________________
"Having a yacht is reason for being more cheerful than most." -Kurt Vonnegut
Suijin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-09-2018, 09:34   #8
Senior Cruiser
 
hpeer's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Boat: Murray 33-Chouette & Pape Steelmaid-44-Safara-both steel cutters
Posts: 5,255
Re: Gale rider - How much chain?

Yes, not what I expected.
__________________

hpeer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How much is too much (anchor and chain) ArmySailor Anchoring & Mooring 84 04-07-2018 11:25
Want To Buy: Gale Rider Storm Sail FSmith Classifieds Archive 2 30-04-2011 11:44
Rider of wind, drinker of Rum:) SAILMONSTER Meets & Greets 7 06-09-2008 00:45
Has anyone used the Kiwi Anchor Rider? Rez Anchoring & Mooring 27 11-02-2008 05:28



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:36.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.