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Old 01-06-2007, 02:35   #61
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Can forward-looking technology help a passagemaker avoid a floating container in the open sea or an uncharted rock in an unfamiliar anchorage?
http://www.interphase-tech.com/art/P...BenEllison.PDF
“Looking Ahead” ~ by By Ben Ellison (Power & Mororyacht, July 2002)
Magic it’s not, but cruisers who understand forward-looking sonar’s limits are pleased with what it can do for them.
Looking Ahead - Forward-Looking Sonar - Power & Motoryacht - Looking Ahead - Sonar

See also:

”SONAR for Navigation” (Part Two) ~ by Steve & Linda Dashew
SetSail.com - the serious cruising sailor's website

Manufacturers:

EchoPilot Marine Electronics Ltd
Contact Us :: Forward Looking Sonar by EchoPilot

FarSounder
3D Forward Looking Sonar for Obstacle Avoidance

Interphase Technologies Inc.
Interphase: Manufacturer of Forward Looking Sonars, Navigational Chart Plotters, WAAS/GPS and Fish Finders

Pilot Marine International Inc.
Pilot Marine Associates, EchoPilot USA
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Old 01-06-2007, 02:59   #62
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Frankly I would be more worried about being rammed by one of Louis Reil's "skippers" (at hull speed) than hitting a container.

The interphase FLS is impressive, especially with the side-scan feature, but the transducer is huge. Not desirable on a fast multi. Another brand of FLS is available with very compact transducers which can be withdrawn via the thru hull. I have one presently, and the forward range is around 4 x the depth, up to 150 metres. I've had it about 7 years and am very satisfied with it. Their website: home :: Forward Looking Sonar by EchoPilot
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Old 01-06-2007, 06:34   #63
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Trim50. I have the Alex's DVD. Enjoyed it alot. What is your connection to him and when he is planning on the DVD?

Thanks, David
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Old 02-06-2007, 17:55   #64
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Containers

If steel belting helps, then building the whole hull out of steel is far better. Too obvious to be thought of.
Brent


Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor
Duck, you should be able to find plenty of books and web articles on damage control. Either rigging damage control pads and patches, that can be lowered over a hole and tied around the hull, or having spare plywood, etc. available and bracing it from the inside as well. You do the best you can and accept that once a hole is larger than your largest patch (settee board, table, whatever) you will be abandoning ship.

In terms of preparing beforehand, some races require watertight bulkheads especially to close off the bow, but on a 30' boat that may not be practical. Some boaters lay in extra layers of steel belting (like the kind used in tires) or spectra, etc. bonded directly to the bow and tip of the keel, either inside or outside. Again a matter of money and tastes.

You do what you can, and then try to keep a sharp lookout.
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Old 02-06-2007, 18:26   #65
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So, Loius/Brent, you believe that remediation and retrofitting are bad ideas, and that one should simply throw out the entire vessel in favor of buying a better one?
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Old 04-08-2007, 14:54   #66
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No , first learn whatever your current boat has to teach you. Then go metal for your next boat when the time is right, or your first boat if that is the stage you are in. It's sometimes easier and cheaper to switch boats than deal with all the weakenesses in your current boat. If you are really worried about containers, then there is not much joy in cruising with that worry in your mind constantly while at sea at night.
Brent
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Old 04-08-2007, 23:23   #67
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Yeah and I guess some sleep better with the illusion that steel boats can't be sunk by containers.
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Old 05-08-2007, 03:37   #68
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Bugger building a rust tub. If you are worried about containers, stick to knitting at home.
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Old 05-08-2007, 06:16   #69
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The weaknesses of my current boat are that it is heavy, doesn't sail in less than 15 knots of wind, and when it does sail it does so slowly. It also rusts constantly. Having learned from that I am NOT building my new boat in steel. Frankly I am more worried about being hit by an asteroid than hitting a container. (The odds are probably similar, but the consequences could be much worse) I doubt a steel boat would offer much advantage in that case. In fact it would present a slower moving target.
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Old 05-08-2007, 23:11   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat
The weaknesses of my current boat are that it is heavy, doesn't sail in less than 15 knots of wind, and when it does sail it does so slowly. It also rusts constantly. Having learned from that I am NOT building my new boat in steel. Frankly I am more worried about being hit by an asteroid than hitting a container. (The odds are probably similar, but the consequences could be much worse) I doubt a steel boat would offer much advantage in that case. In fact it would present a slower moving target.
That was a great post
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Old 07-08-2007, 03:19   #71
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ah now foxy dont you go picking on us steelies....it will make us cry and when we cry it makes our boats rust...and .....and ...its so unfare.... ; )...
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Old 07-08-2007, 03:30   #72
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I had a look at the photos of your new boat on the other thread. Looks pretty solid and well painted. I reckon you will give a few containers a fright with it.
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Old 07-08-2007, 08:56   #73
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Not to confirm or deny the puncture resistent qualities of a steel boat but...

My Jeep club was out at Fort Hood many, many years ago doing what we did... slowly climbing over huge boulders at 2 MPH, getting stuck and twisted etc.

Along comes an MP in a military Hummer to holler at us for being in the wrong sector. After calming down a bit, he decided to show us some good four-wheeling areas. Again, huge boulders on steep grades. We start out tooling away... he proceeds to run his Hummer into a boulder the size of a VW at 40 MPH. The boulder splits as the Hummer pops in the air and skids right over it. We stop to marvel at the undamaged Hummer and I ask the soldier how thick the skid plates on the front of the Hummer are... 3/16 plate.

I suspect a similarly constructed steel hull at 12 knots that stuck a container would probably cause the container to submerge and deflect some what as the hull rode up on and over it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to try this though...

FWIW
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Old 07-08-2007, 09:10   #74
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I saw one many years ago in the Atlantic.

I was in the US Navy at the time, on a destroyer. We used one of our 5 inch guns to sink it, but it took too many shots and the Captain was quite pissed.
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Old 11-11-2009, 01:14   #75
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Sorry to revive this thread, but I thought Brent Swain was getting an unfair beatdown.

This thread seems like a bunch of fiberglass boat owners making unsubstantiated claims and reassuring themselves that their fiberglass boats are safe. And they're right, their boats are safe and the likelihood of coming to harm is extremely slim.

I think these guys are also underestimating the strength of steel in small sailboats. Have you ever heard of a small (i.e. under 60 ft) steel boat getting holed and sinking? Me neither. But I have heard of plenty of fiberglass boats hitting debris in the ocean and sinking in minutes.

In the following link is a report of a guy whose steel hull pounded on a reef for 10 hours without sinking. I can't imagine any fiberglass boat surviving the initial impact, let alone 10 hours of pounding.

Atom Voyages | Articles by James Baldwin: A Law Unto Himself - Kris Larson Sailing his Steel Junk

Yes, steel rusts, but good design and modern epoxy coatings make this a minor issue.

What about speed? Smaller steel boats are going to be slower than their fiberglass counterparts- no question, but the added weight also gives a more comfortable motion at sea.

One more benefit of steel is it's easier to make a watertight boat. No leaking chain plates, keel bolts, etc.
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