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Old 11-11-2012, 09:11   #31
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Re: Flares as a weapon

I like the fact that the OP is going to save expired flares to defend himself with. Wouldn't want to waste a good one to save your life.
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Old 11-11-2012, 09:20   #32
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Re: Flares as a weapon

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Originally Posted by Cacique View Post
Parachute Flares As A Weapon
If your talking about a Parachute rocket then this is the likely consequences.

Flare kills football fan at World Cup qualifying match - UK - News - The Independent
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Old 11-11-2012, 10:15   #33
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Re: Flares as a weapon

It is only my opinion, but I think things like flare guns and wasp spray are only going to help if it distracts your attacker long enough for you to get close and put him down. After that all it has done is give them a nice adrenalin rush to use when they focus their new anger at hurting you now instead of just robbing you.
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Old 11-11-2012, 11:05   #34
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Re: Flares as a weapon

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Originally Posted by atoll View Post
........ a whiff of ammonia is like being hit on the side of the head with a cricket bat,effect is immediate
Don't be your life on that. Everyone has different sensitivity to ammonia. I made my living selling anhydrous ammonia - that's the real deal, not the dissolved in water crap that you are talking about. I had guys who couldn't stand it even inside personal protective gear and guys who never wore their face masks because they couldn't smell it. Personally I've walked into clouds to shut a valve off and just held my breath on more than one occasion. The only way ammonia will surely incapacitate someone is if you are lucky enough to get it in their eyes.
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Old 11-11-2012, 11:11   #35
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Re: Flares as a weapon

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Originally Posted by bobofthenorth View Post
Don't be your life on that. Everyone has different sensitivity to ammonia. I made my living selling anhydrous ammonia - that's the real deal, not the dissolved in water crap that you are talking about. I had guys who couldn't stand it even inside personal protective gear and guys who never wore their face masks because they couldn't smell it. Personally I've walked into clouds to shut a valve off and just held my breath on more than one occasion. The only way ammonia will surely incapacitate someone is if you are lucky enough to get it in their eyes.
hey i was trying to be pro-active here and pc,guess i will just have to stick with my mini 14,and 30 round clip
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Old 11-11-2012, 11:38   #36
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Re: Flares as a weapon

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Originally Posted by jeremiason View Post
Silly question, but why do you carry your flare gun loaded and why would it be the USCG's fault that the flare gun was not secure two days after they inspected it...

You are the Captain of your boat, maybe you should take some responsibility for failing to store the flare gun properly and endangering your paid passengers.
That is not a silly question?
I keep all my weapons loaded. What the hell good are they if, in the instant you need them, ya say "Hold on sir intruder I gotta find my flares and load my only legal weapon."? To answer your 2nd question; it takes me many days on a complex 50' 23 ton boat to find all the stuff that was disturbed by the inspection and sometimes weeks later I find things that were tossed about. Sorry but many of them are just youngsters, that don't have a clue about sailing vessels. I find they didn't care as long as you complied with the motor boat regs.
Who knows, that was 10 years ago and more. Maybe things have changed. They have improved in Colorado and Washington...

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Old 11-11-2012, 12:02   #37
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Re: Flares as a weapon

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Originally Posted by impi View Post
I did not know but put Impi in the search page on Noonsite and came up with this link

On Passage Brazil to Tobago: Suspiciously Pursued off Suriname - January 2012 — Noonsite
I had the same thing happen to me off the west coast of Mexico in the dark. I kept changing course and so did he. Just at daybreak a fast, smaller boat came alongside with armed passengers.... then came the Coast Guard inspection!! ha ha
If in a remote area and if any concern, seems like running no lights would be a good thing.
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Old 11-11-2012, 12:07   #38
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Re: Flares as a weapon

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Originally Posted by Capt.Fred View Post
That is not a silly question?
I keep all my weapons loaded. What the hell good are they if, in the instant you need them, ya say "Hold on sir intruder I gotta find my flares and load my only legal weapon."?
First of all a flare gun is not designed as a weapon, it is designed as a launcher for a rocket flare. These are not quality weapons, they are cheaply made launches and don't have safeties if the hammer is cocked.

Loading a single shot flare pistol takes less than 5 seconds.

In my opinion, carrying a loaded flare pistol is plain dangerous and poor practice, especially on a vessel carrying paid passengers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Fred View Post
To answer your 2nd question; it takes me many days on a complex 50' 23 ton boat to find all the stuff that was disturbed by the inspection and sometimes weeks later I find things that were tossed about. Sorry but many of them are just youngsters, that don't have a clue about sailing vessels. I find they didn't care as long as you complied with the motor boat regs.

Frankly, a 50 foot sailboat is not that complicated to inspect and if you can't find the safety items after an inspection, what in the hell are you taking paid passengers out for?

I have stood COI's on ships up to 165 feet (148 passengers) both as a Deck Officer or Captain. I have also stood numerous USCG Courtesy Inspections on my own and other boats I was Captaining.

I don't ever remember the USCG offering to put anything away after an inspection and if they did, as the Master I would insure it was put away right before I took paid passengers out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Fred View Post
Who knows, that was 10 years ago and more. Maybe things have changed. They have improved in Colorado and Washington...
I certainly would not blame the USCG Inspectors for something I was responsible for...
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Old 11-11-2012, 12:36   #39
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Re: Flares as a weapon

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Originally Posted by MysticGringo View Post
That's an intense story. I would have probably done the same as you.

That being said, nobody really knows what their intention was... but obviously it wasn't to offer you a good deal on some fish. We also don't know if you brought a knife to a gunfight, but I agree that in theory bringing a knife to a gunfight is probably better than bringing nothing at all.

One of the keys in the success you saw was that you were under way. If a second flare wouldn't have scared them off, what was your next plan? Drag some rope behind to try to foul their props?
Strangely enough a delivery skipper with Moorings also had an attempted boarding in the same spot and ran without lights in the dead of night to avoid them. I think these are unsuccessful fishermen who have managed to hold up the odd vessel and take home more than fish but for me it seemed they were VERY aggressive and I had a feeling that Ana may not be safe if they boarded.

We react differently when put in the situation ... I had decided that they were not going to board my vessel ... not as long as I drew breath. We have back up plans ... not that I want to discuss those too much but the next step would have been an electrifying one for them as they tried to mount my rail ... after that it would be serious stuff for all of us ... my policy is simple ... no one boards Impi, not as long as Ana is on board!
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Old 11-11-2012, 14:03   #40
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Re: Flares as a weapon

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...no one boards Impi, not as long as Ana is on board!
I've often wondered how I could/would respond in a threatening situation, but if Wifey is on board, I can't imagine suppressing the raging bear within.

I like the idea of using a flare as a deterrent... but if they come with guns, I'm a little stumped. I guess I'd be hoping to find the Bruce Willis within!
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Old 11-11-2012, 16:43   #41
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Re: Flares as a weapon

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Originally Posted by HopCar View Post
I like the fact that the OP is going to save expired flares to defend himself with. Wouldn't want to waste a good one to save your life.
Well I've got to get rid of them somehow and obviously I'd have the in date ones as backup. I only have 6 parachute flares all the others are hand helds or smoke.
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Old 11-11-2012, 17:24   #42
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Re: Flares as a weapon

"Well I've got to get rid of them somehow and obviously I'd have the in date ones as backup. I only have 6 parachute flares all the others are hand helds or smoke."

Who said that sailors aren't a frugal bunch?
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Old 11-11-2012, 17:26   #43
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Re: Flares as a weapon

"Well I've got to get rid of them somehow"
Not really. A common misunderstanding here in the US is that "all" of your pyros must be in date. That's called illiteracy. Our regulations require a certain number of pyros to be current, anything beyond that is no one else's business. And if you've stored them in a hermetically sealed case, which is the only waythey will be reliable at all, they keep perfectly well often for 10-20 years.
So, get rid of them? No. If you've stored them properly, just put the container aside and expect that you will have them as "more flares" when you need them. Preferably using the oldest ones first.
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Old 11-11-2012, 17:35   #44
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Re: Flares as a weapon

"Preferably using the oldest ones first."
In a life threatening situation I think I'd use the newest one first.
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Old 11-11-2012, 17:54   #45
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Re: Flares as a weapon

Quote:
First of all a flare gun is not designed as a weapon, it is designed as a launcher for a rocket flare. These are not quality weapons, they are cheaply made launches and don't have safeties if the hammer is cocked.
Unless of course one has one of these:

27mm Catalog of Enemy Ordnance

(which by the way, I do not.)
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