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Old 11-04-2014, 18:24   #46
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Re: Fire!! Fire:0, Mark:1, Extinguisher:??????

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Originally Posted by ShaunJ View Post
That's funny Hop Car
"I suspect they may not have been wearing pants when the fire started."

ShaunJ
Or thats why the fire started!

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Old 14-04-2014, 06:40   #47
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Re: Fire!! Fire:0, Mark:1, Extinguisher:??????

Depending on the type of fire nothing compares to halon.

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Old 14-04-2014, 07:24   #48
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Re: Fire!! Fire:0, Mark:1, Extinguisher:??????

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Or thats why the fire started!

I think Mark J's new name should include HOT PANTS or SPARKY. LOL

Another great job Mark. Your karma is growing by leaks and bounds.
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Old 14-04-2014, 07:42   #49
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Re: Fire!! Fire:0, Mark:1, Extinguisher:??????

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Depending on the type of fire nothing compares to halon.

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I agree with this BUT, I wonder how much halon remains out in the yachting world. Additionally, for it or installed CO2 systems to be effective the space has to be essentially sealable. Most spaces on a boat can't close off ventilation well like the external air intake to the engine space. Another thing is that when halon is exposed to fire it becomes toxic(can't remember the gas at the moment).
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Old 14-04-2014, 11:06   #50
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Re: Fire!! Fire:0, Mark:1, Extinguisher:??????

Toxic and a carcinogen, not to mention damned expensive to refill. But the "halogen-ish" alternatives are a step less effective and less expensive, and CO2 even cheaper and certainly effective. Assuming you are not in a submarine or a computer server room.
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Old 14-04-2014, 12:49   #51
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Re: Fire!! Fire:0, Mark:1, Extinguisher:??????

[QUOTE=hellosailor;1518641]Toxic and a carcinogen[QUOTE]

It is neither of them. Its main problem is ozone depletion, and production has been banned for that reason.

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Old 14-04-2014, 13:09   #52
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Re: Fire!! Fire:0, Mark:1, Extinguisher:??????

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Thanks for all the replies

But no one has commented on the way we actually put out the fire.

Water.

Buckets of it. Then a rigged up bilge pump.

That really put it out.

Is water better?? Who cares if we blow a fuse?
Got to watch out how MUCH water you use, I saw a boat almost sunk after the electric bilge pump got plugged and the over eager fire fighters kept pumping water in it to make sure the fire was out.

DON'T use water on a grease or oil fire as the water can propel the burning oil around, as oil (and burning oil too) floats on water. Also remember if you have bilges and an fuel fire, and if the bilges on your boat are connected, the fire can get behind you under the floor boards. I've personally had this happen to me once fighting a fuel oil fire on a ship. I can tell you the term "uncomfortable" isn't even close to the feeling you have when you look behind you and see a sheet of flames in front of the door you had planned to evacuate through, licking around your hoses on the deck.

A word or three about AFFF. It works GREAT, especially on oil fires as it smothers AND cools the fire. With this extinguisher you want to spray it on a surface behind the fire so it can flow back across the fire to cover it. It is a bit of overkill on paper/wood fires and I'd be VERY careful using it on electrical fires, especially 110V and above (its a liquid).

If the fire goes out, do NOT discharge the extinguisher completely, save what is left, as you may need it if the fire re-flashes. If the fire is paper/wood/fiberglass you may need to use a boathook or claw hammer to break the wood up a bit to find and extinguish hidden coals or hot spots. This is called overhauling the fire.

Last thing, ALWAYS test your fire extinguisher BEFORE charging in to fight the fire, otherwise you might be beating a quick retreat if it fails (or you forget to pull the pin) to work.

There are a lot of videos on youtube on firefighting, I'd suggest you view them and as was stated above, fight a few controlled fires, before you try the real deal.
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Old 14-04-2014, 13:13   #53
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Re: Fire!! Fire:0, Mark:1, Extinguisher:??????

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Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Thanks for all the replies

But no one has commented on the way we actually put out the fire.

Water.

Buckets of it. Then a rigged up bilge pump.

That really put it out.

Is water better?? Who cares if we blow a fuse?
When I was in the Navy on submarines we ran fire drills all the time it seemed like and for a major type of fire drill the fire fire never was considered under control/out till at least 2 fire hoses were at the scene.

We were am old boat so there were lots of little electrical fires and in 11 years there was only 1 that was still "burning" by the time it was found and called in and someone got back to it with a fire extinguisher and therefore actually used it.

BTW - real fires never seemed to go the way of drills, which just shows how wrong things get done when real. If we had critiqued real fires as we did for drills they would always have failed the drill.
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Old 14-04-2014, 13:22   #54
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Re: Fire!! Fire:0, Mark:1, Extinguisher:??????

[QUOTE=colemj;1518699][QUOTE=hellosailor;1518641]Toxic and a carcinogen
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It is neither of them. Its main problem is ozone depletion, and production has been banned for that reason.



Mark

Halon is highly toxic after it has done its work in extinguishing a fire, by itself it is fairly benign. But you are right in the issue of degradation of the ozone layer.

MarkJ,
Buckets of water work great on alpha fires. Water is a hazard with fuel or galley oil fires and may be I effective with electrical fires unless the circuit is de energized (we are talking low voltage 12/24 volt circuits).
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Old 14-04-2014, 13:46   #55
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Re: Fire!! Fire:0, Mark:1, Extinguisher:??????

OK it is not toxic. Except a typical MSDS says "
The main chronic health hazard associated with releases of this gas is possible adverse effects to the central nervous system and possible cardiac sensitization and arrhythmias."
CNS damage and heart arrhythmia can both kill you, in my book that counts as toxic.
I've seen many references over the years to the combustion products being carcinogenic, as many common chemicals we use are. Apparently one of the ingredients in some types of Halon (they are not all the same) are Trihalomethanes and those are still considered carcinogenic.
Given the choice between burning to death now and risking a lingering death later...I'd still opt for the halon now.
But hey, carbon tetrachloride was the miracle extinguisher for many many years, and look how that's shunned now.
The USCG certified toys keep the watercops happy. The CO2 bottles keep me happy. And the Halon bottle is strictly reserved for "Who set the hellfire loose in the engine bay?"
The Ozone...that hole may have saved us all from an overdue ice age. Die a horrible flaming death now, or an ozone-damaged one later...hmmmm.....I just think some of the ozone-saving steps may have been the result of panic and low-hanging fruit, rather than, duh, logic?
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Old 14-04-2014, 16:48   #56
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Re: Fire!! Fire:0, Mark:1, Extinguisher:??????

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
OK it is not toxic. Except a typical MSDS says "
The main chronic health hazard associated with releases of this gas is possible adverse effects to the central nervous system and possible cardiac sensitization and arrhythmias."
CNS damage and heart arrhythmia can both kill you, in my book that counts as toxic.
I'm not trying to be pedantic, but you left out the part that says "very high doses".

And water at very high doses is also toxic.

I agree with you on which risk I would rather take.

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Old 14-04-2014, 17:02   #57
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Re: Fire!! Fire:0, Mark:1, Extinguisher:??????

good job & great heads-up.

In my former life at Dow Chemical, we all trained at the fire barn. Its good to be able to try out a variety of extinguishers on various fire types. We also had foam that's awesome stuff. Good advice on the size. We have several 2 to 5#-ers on board. I may pick up a big bertha if I can figure out where to stow it.
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