Fire Extinguisher Discussion

[svHyLyte]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Now that I've solved some of the mysteries of my electrical system on another thread with lots of assistance from some very persistent problem solvers here on CF, it's time to move on to fire extinguishers.

Our yacht probably has at least 15 fire extinguishers onboard which all read in the green zone on the circular gauge. I have no idea how old these things are? I'd planned on buying a few this season just to be sure I had something that worked when the SHTF like it did three years ago when we had an electric engine fire onboard.

Short of firing off each one.... are the extinguishers still any good? What happens when they go bad, is the stuff inside all packed down?

Tomorrow, I might take one or two outside and see if they work.

What to do?

Typical "disposable" dry chemical fire extinguishers have a usable life-span of 10-12 years (e.g. Kidde ABC and BC marine fire extinguishers are guaranteed for 12 years). The date of manufacture is normally printed near the bottom of the cylinders as part of a 10 digit registration number. The last 4 digits being the month and year of manufacture (per Kidde's literature). So long as the pressure gauge is in the Green, the device is useful. Despite practices to the contrary Kidde does not recommend "shaking up" a dispenser. Lastly, once fired even for a moment, a dispenser should be replaced. For your own edification, you might choose two or three at random to try out. If any fail, replace all as they were likely replaced en mass and the possibility of a failure is not acceptable. Trying a few out will also be a good training exercise but do so where the discharge will not effect your or any other boats, car, people, animals etc. as the agent can be pervasive and irritating and is difficult to clean up. In use, aim at the base of the fire.

While we have several dry chem extinguishers aboard, I have elected to have several refillable CO2 units as well. More effective and less mess in an event. We also have fire suppression blanket mounted on the inside faces of several lockers, particularly adjacent to the galley, the most common place for fires to occur--at least until the advent of Lith-Ion battery devices, which should not be left "charging" in one's absence.

FWIW...

[Bjorn_O]

Originally Posted by Seabeau

Keep mind that the use of Halon produces a byproduct, dangerous phosgene gas. If you use Halon you need to ventilate those spaces prior to reentry.

... and that Halon is illegal.

[Kenomac]

KISS

My wife came up with this idea after reading about the boat fire and sinking of the boat down in Mexico early last summer. Whenever we're underway for a passage or day hop, this is what our forward head sink looks like. The hose is 75ft and will reach anywhere on the boat above or below, and is connected to 200 gallons of fresh water.

The sink to hose connection was purchased at the Home Depot for around $10 and is detachable with a quick connect that remains on the faucet.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Bjorn_O

... and that Halon is illegal.

If I can buy it from a very well respected source, how is it illegal?
Halotron is also certainly not illegal.
In 1995 in Fleigelhoist Germany the local Germans came and removed the 150 lb Halon fire extinguishers we had on the flight line. I asked why and got the answer it's bad for the environment, so I asked is it better for the environment for the aircraft to burn to the ground?

Read this, Halon is not illegal
http://www.h3rcleanagents.com/support_faq_2.htm

Read also there about is Halon safe. I do not believe Halon will turn into or make any significant amount of Phosgene gas, cause if it did it would be very deadly as Phosgene was a gas used to kill in WWI I believe.

Lots of misconceptions about Halon, so much so that M1 tank crews were afraid to use the fire suppression system and it was tough to make them not believe the rumors, they believed it would save the tank and suffocate the crew, however it takes an enormous concentration of Halon to kill you, but any gas if high enough concentration will kill, CO2 is very deadly, ask any rebreather diver

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

KISS



My wife came up with this idea after reading about the boat fire and sinking of the boat down in Mexico early last summer. Whenever we're underway for a passage or day hop, this is what our forward head sink looks like. The hose is 75ft and will reach anywhere on the boat above or below, and is connected to 200 gallons of fresh water.



The sink to hose connection was purchased at the Home Depot for around $10 and is detachable with a quick connect that remains on the faucet.

That is a very good idea, cause not much is more effective on a class A fire than water, just be careful of course to not use it on flammable liquids.
Fresh water in my opinion on any voltages your likely to find on a boat is safe, fresh water does not conduct electricity very well, but that is just my opinion

[Kenomac]

If Halon remains inside the canister, how is it harmful to the environment? Wouldn't a burning fiberglass boat, plane, car or house be more harmful? If only the ecofreaks could see their ridiculousness.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

That is a very good idea, cause not much is more effective on a class A fire than water, just be careful of course to not use it on flammable liquids.
Fresh water in my opinion on any voltages your likely to find on a boat is safe, fresh water does not conduct electricity very well, but that is just my opinion

She came up with the idea from reading that the fire spread rapidly on the Sea of Cortez boat due to reignition caused by a red hot turbo which was too close to flammable wooden panels. The fire extinguishers were ineffective causing the boat to explode and sink, burning the two occupants badly as they dove overboard.

We also have a fire blanket next to the galley sink.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Read this, Halon is not illegal
What is Halon? How does Halon Work? Is Halon legal? Is Halon Safe?

In the US it seems not. Meanwhile the rest of the 1st world countries are busy sending their gas to the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_e...carbon_dioxide

Halon was completely banned in Europe and Australia except for critical users like law enforcement and aviation, resulting in stockpiles either being destroyed via high heat incineration or being sent to the United States for reuse.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

If Halon remains inside the canister, how is it harmful to the environment? Wouldn't a burning fiberglass boat, plane, car or house be more harmful? If only the ecofreaks could see their ridiculousness.

The Montreal Agreement was about limiting gasses that damage the Ozone layer, that's the one that stops nasty radiation from the sun hurting people I think, Interestingly one agreement that 150 countries around the world actually managed to agree on, well apart from the US it would seem

Surely as a medic you agree that in this instance it was a good idea to reduce and then stop using it.

Interestingly the Ozone layer is actually repairing itself since Europe and a few other countries stopped using it. This is good news and I am a climate sceptic.

Pete

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

KISS

My wife came up with this idea after reading about the boat fire and sinking of the boat down in Mexico early last summer. Whenever we're underway for a passage or day hop, this is what our forward head sink looks like. The hose is 75ft and will reach anywhere on the boat above or below, and is connected to 200 gallons of fresh water.

The sink to hose connection was purchased at the Home Depot for around $10 and is detachable with a quick connect that remains on the faucet.

Excellent idea, but please change that hose, they are a complete joke and most of us have taken them back after they leaks and fittings failing in spectacular fashion.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by HopCar

I've heard that the powder packing isn't as big a problem as we've believed. I still turn mine over and tap it when ever I think to do it. If I was going to fight fire, I'd probably turn it over and shake or tap it before I pulled the trigger.

You arrow is in the green, I'd say it's still good.

Don't test fire it. Powdered will get on the seal and cause it to leak.

If it ever gets fired, even for a second or two, it will need to be recharged or more likely replaced. Replacement of those with plastic valves is usually cheaper than recharge.

What he said. These cannot be test fired.

I would also add that a fire extinguisher is NOT the best answer in all cases. The extinguisher does not cool the embers, so they often re-ignite. Water is best for that. A fire blanket has many uses. Most importantly, once you fire dry chemical, you are often forced from the cabin by the extinguishing media and will not be able to finish fighting the fire.

Practical Sailor has an article coming out next month.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Excellent idea, but please change that hose, they are a complete joke and most of us have taken them back after they leaks and fittings failing in spectacular fashion.

This is one of the heavy duty models, I've had several failures of my own with the cheap ones.

[Jim Cate]

From memory, the impetus to stop using Halon came from very large systems, ones used to protect very high value installations like big computers, and the practice of test firing them regularly. Each test dumped hundred or thousands of pounds of Halon into the atmosphere, and that was viewed as unacceptable, and hence the ban.

To me, this has little bearing on the small hand held extinguishers that we are discussing, especially in that for the most part, they will never be discharged. I do not know if the rules outlaw such usage, but I could (and do) condone their use on our boats. I have never had anyone question the type of extinguishing agents used in our boat, FWTW.

Jim

[Pete7]

I don't think it was fire extinguishers per se, but a desire to stop using Halon and the biggest problem was fridges and freezers being dumped and the gas released to the atmosphere. Extinguishers probably just got swept up it the rush to save the Ozone layer.

Pete

[weavis]

Ken
I have to make this observation.

You are willing to spend 3 times the cost on solar panels, which in my genuine experience is not worth it, but are not prepared to replace all the out of date extinguishers on your vessel.

Somewhere the value of your logic does not compute.

My opinion? Stop it...

Get new extinguishers and be sure.

The value is in the life you save... not the electric bill.