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Old 28-05-2017, 10:18   #76
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Re: Fire Extinguisher Discussion

After several thousand into a dual tank Halon for engine room (apparently wooden boats are a double threat) and annual inspection and tank weighing Halon made illegal. New gas ,name escapes ,me available but only in different tanks. Several thousand more, Recycled halon used by the CG as they are grandfathered.Never had a fire, but I was legally prepared. Even offered a job installing systems but I was busy sailing.
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Old 28-05-2017, 10:19   #77
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Re: Fire Extinguisher Discussion

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I think he plans on replacing it. Don't want to see Ken cited and locked up in a foreign jail like the one in the film Midnight Express

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We're in Italy, haven't made it over to Turkey yet.
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Old 28-05-2017, 11:49   #78
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Fire Extinguisher Discussion

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I have 2 18lb Halon fire extinguisher's. One of them I used to put out a going engine fire on a Cessna 185. That discharge left the needle still in the green and that was 10 years ago. It still has not lost any more weight to this day.


I've been doing some more reading, it seems that maybe Halon is not a gas under pressure like CO2 and Propane, maybe it's a liquid that is pressurized by an inert gas, sort of like the old water fire extinguishers?
I got the pressurized gas idea from the Army as we had to weigh and record the bottle weights during phase inspection, and weight was used to determine serviceability.
Then Halon is a term sort of like plastic, I think there may be several different gases all called Halon, but have a different number.
My little bottles are I think a mix of 1211 and 13 something.
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Old 28-05-2017, 11:53   #79
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Re: Fire Extinguisher Discussion

OK, it seems maybe 1211 is a liquid even when not under pressure and maybe propelled by nitrogen under pressure, hence the pressure gauge.
However I think 1301 is a gas under pressure that becomes a liquid under pressure, like CO2.
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Old 28-05-2017, 12:48   #80
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Re: Fire Extinguisher Discussion

As a side issue, I wonder why pressurised water is not a commonly available firefighting option on yachts.

Boat extinguishers have a very limited capacity, and many are corrosive, with a difficult cleanup. They can damage engines etc. This discourages early use. Halon was brilliant, but no longer available for boat use.

I realise water is not a great firefighting tool, and not suitable for all fires, but several hundred litres of fresh water and unlimited salt water is potentially available. This would seem to be at least a useful supplement to the very small capacity of boat extinguishers.

Few yachts could take useful advantage of this water supply for firefighting. This is despite the fact that the fundamental equipment such as high powered electric and manual pumps is already fitted for other purposes.

It would be great to get some feedback from firefighting professionals. Is a hose that could be used for firefighting connected to manual and electric pumps a waste of time? Perhaps you could recommend other equipment such as perhaps smoke hoods fire blankets etc.

The small foam extinguishers which are often the only firefighting equipment available on many yachts seems a little inadequate to me, but I have little knowledge in this area.

Thoughts?
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Old 28-05-2017, 13:09   #81
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Re: Fire Extinguisher Discussion

On big transport Military aircraft like the C5 we were issued plastic bags with a small can "air", joke of course was that they are turkey baster bags, and about as good, for smoke of course.
I've not seen foam on a boat, although I think it would be better than dry chemical.
One of my issues of dry chemical is that it would very quickly make the inside of the boat uninhabitable, you would have to abandon it as you couldn't breathe or see.
Water on anything except a liquid fuel fire would be I think very effective.
If you have high voltage of course that needs addressing, but most are ground fault protected anyway?

No, I think Ken's wife's idea an excellent one, especially when you factor effectiveness against cost
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Old 28-05-2017, 13:21   #82
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Re: Fire Extinguisher Discussion

I surprised you can't make your own foam extinguisher. Crash crews at airports spray foam on crashes that they mix with water in the truck. It's some sort of animal bi product that stinks. Comes in 5 gal cans.
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Old 28-05-2017, 13:23   #83
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Fire Extinguisher Discussion

You could, its made from Cow blood. It's mixed apparently, I think maybe even in the nozzle.
Stuff we use in an Ag plane when using it as a fire bomber is a lot like plain ole liquid soap, we fill the hopper rinse tank with it and pump it into the hopper just before a drop and out comes foam.
Mix rate is if I remember right .5% so a 5 gl bucket of foam will mix with 1000 gl of water?
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Old 29-05-2017, 00:09   #84
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Re: Fire Extinguisher Discussion

Just a thought, might be worth considering a DC fire pump as an alternative. Something like Fire pumps are vital boating equipment, particularly in emergencies.
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Old 29-05-2017, 07:55   #85
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Re: Fire Extinguisher Discussion

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Just a thought, might be worth considering a DC fire pump as an alternative. Something like Fire pumps are vital boating equipment, particularly in emergencies.
Might be better to see if a petrol driven water pump can also be used for fire fighting. That way it doesn't need battery power or eve need to be connected to the yacht, it could be cross decked to another yacht with a fire or a flood.

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/clar...-petrol-drive/

I agree with Noelex, the run time for a 1L extinguisher isn't even in double figures. You might put your burnt toast out but not much else.

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Old 30-05-2017, 04:52   #86
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Re: Fire Extinguisher Discussion

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... Is Halotron nearly as effective as Halon?
... "The disadvantage of a Halotron 1 extinguisher is that it is approximately twice as large and heavy as a like-rated Halon extinguisher because Halotron 1 is less effective, pound per pound, compared to Halon." ...
EAA Sport Aviation . Halon Fire Extinguisher Comparison
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Old 03-06-2017, 23:43   #87
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Re: Fire Extinguisher Discussion

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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
As a side issue, I wonder why pressurised water is not a commonly available firefighting option on yachts.

Boat extinguishers have a very limited capacity, and many are corrosive, with a difficult cleanup. They can damage engines etc. This discourages early use. Halon was brilliant, but no longer available for boat use.

I realise water is not a great firefighting tool, and not suitable for all fires, but several hundred litres of fresh water and unlimited salt water is potentially available. This would seem to be at least a useful supplement to the very small capacity of boat extinguishers.

Few yachts could take useful advantage of this water supply for firefighting. This is despite the fact that the fundamental equipment such as high powered electric and manual pumps is already fitted for other purposes.

It would be great to get some feedback from firefighting professionals. Is a hose that could be used for firefighting connected to manual and electric pumps a waste of time? Perhaps you could recommend other equipment such as perhaps smoke hoods fire blankets etc.

The small foam extinguishers which are often the only firefighting equipment available on many yachts seems a little inadequate to me, but I have little knowledge in this area.

Thoughts?
Hi Nolex,
Sea water fire hoses is a standard firefighting tool for non electrical fires.

For a small yacht engine room compartment, you would not need that much pressure as the Fog Application could be sustained with 7 to 8 GPM, to both cool and starve for oxygen.

My aft toilet is now fresh water plumbed, but I still have the sea water intake there that I plumbed with a Par wash down pump and flexible fire hose to fog the ER or cool down the surrounds as well as to salt water pressurize the toilet, if I wanted to save my fresh water tank.

I'm quite sure I could put out a diesel fire with it if caught early.
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Old 04-06-2017, 01:30   #88
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Re: Fire Extinguisher Discussion

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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
As a side issue, I wonder why pressurised water is not a commonly available firefighting option on yachts.

Boat extinguishers have a very limited capacity, and many are corrosive, with a difficult cleanup. They can damage engines etc. This discourages early use. Halon was brilliant, but no longer available for boat use.

I realise water is not a great firefighting tool, and not suitable for all fires, but several hundred litres of fresh water and unlimited salt water is potentially available. This would seem to be at least a useful supplement to the very small capacity of boat extinguishers.

Few yachts could take useful advantage of this water supply for firefighting. This is despite the fact that the fundamental equipment such as high powered electric and manual pumps is already fitted for other purposes.

It would be great to get some feedback from firefighting professionals. Is a hose that could be used for firefighting connected to manual and electric pumps a waste of time? Perhaps you could recommend other equipment such as perhaps smoke hoods fire blankets etc.

The small foam extinguishers which are often the only firefighting equipment available on many yachts seems a little inadequate to me, but I have little knowledge in this area.

Thoughts?
I'm looking in to getting some of these shortly, check out the video....

Water Mist Extinguishers - For most fire risks
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Old 04-06-2017, 12:57   #89
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Re: Fire Extinguisher Discussion

Do they meet Coast Guard requirements?
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Old 04-06-2017, 14:35   #90
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Re: Fire Extinguisher Discussion

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Do they meet Coast Guard requirements?
Couldn't tell you, you would have to check that yourself, perfectly acceptable here in Australia......
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