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Old 13-05-2017, 14:52   #46
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Fire Extinguisher Discussion

I think Halon fell into the CFC ban, chlorinated fluorocarbons if I spelled that correctly.
We used to use carbon tetrachloride like it was water and I think huge amounts of it was used in production of electronics, then of course refrigerants like R12 and R22 etc are very similar. They are not illegal either, just most countries are not allowed to manufacture them is all.
However when I was in Korea in 99 to 00, you could buy all the R12 and 22 that you wanted, no card, for sale to the general public. I think not all countries are disallowed to manufacture it. I'd be surprised if China is not using huge amounts of CFC's in manufacturing, but that is a guess. Heck almost every spray can of anything had CFC's as propellant, they worked well and were cheap.

I believe DDT is still in use?

However Halon in fire extinguishers is such a tiny amount in comparison to what was used its literally in the thousandths of a percent of what was used.

Aviation leaded fuel as an example, leaded fuel was outlawed years ago in the US and aviation fuel was such a tiny percentage, it was simply not thought about, however it is technically illegal and has been so for decades, something that the "Friends of the Earth" are keen to point out in lawsuits against the US government.

Moderation is the logical course of action in my opinion. Many Drugs are used illegally and cause great harm, but they cause great good in those that need them, so should they be made illegal to manufacture? They do great harm to Society, yet save lives and give quality of life and or pain relief to many.

Looked it up, DDT is still manufactured in India, North Korea and China.
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Old 13-05-2017, 15:01   #47
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Re: Fire Extinguisher Discussion

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Ken
I have to make this observation.

You are willing to spend 3 times the cost on solar panels, which in my genuine experience is not worth it, but are not prepared to replace all the out of date extinguishers on your vessel.

Somewhere the value of your logic does not compute.

My opinion? Stop it...

Get new extinguishers and be sure.

The value is in the life you save... not the electric bill.
Our experience on the fire extinguishers we have in our office building, is that they work fine long after they've expired. In fact, one of our tenants put out a fire using one of the old ones we had sitting in the hallway when a certified pyromaniac tried to burn down the place 15 years ago.

We keep with the fire code and replace them when required to do so.

We have at least 15 of these things on our boat, I'm sure we're fine. None of the extinguisers have an expiration date and all read in the green zone. The only one I'll suppliment will be the automatic extinguisher in the engine compartment by adding a second one.
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Old 13-05-2017, 15:05   #48
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Re: Fire Extinguisher Discussion

A few months ago I was loading our boat up for a week away. As I staggered down the companionway something I was holding (I will never know what it was) managed to simultaneously hook out the safety pin and press down on the lever of the pretty large fire extinguisher I keep in the deckhouse.

The extinguisher came with the boat and was about ten years old. I had given it a shake from time to time and even stored it inverted for a few weeks on the advice of a friend who is a fiery. (we rotate our house extinguishers in spring and autumn at the change of daylight savings, at the same time we replace our smoke dectector batteries.). The gauge on the extinguisher showed right in the middle of the green band.

Well, the boat and I got pretty liberally covered in a fine gritty white powder and it was a PITA to clean up.

But here's the thing. It was not even remotely like enough to put out a fire and when I went to empty it completely to make it safe to throw out there was only a trickle of pressure left in it. Now that move to empty it was a few hours later, so the pressure may well have bled off. But I didn't trust any of the five other extinguishers after that and replaced the lot. They were pretty cheap, even the big ones.
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Old 13-05-2017, 16:42   #49
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Fire Extinguisher Discussion

In all honesty it may not be a bad idea of you have those dry chemical things to put a breathing mask hanging from them, especially if you have Asthma.
Discharge one of those things in a confined space and your both blind and cannot breathe.

If you don't have a couple of inch hole in your engine room enclosure, covered by something you can see through like a piece of plexiglass, you need to.
Idea is to peer through the plexiglass and if you see a fire, swing it to the side and discharge the extinguisher, after securing the engine of course.
You don't want to open up the engine compartment if you can help it.

My Zeus touch will take two video camera feeds, I have two cheap cameras I need to mount so I can see into the engine compartment from the helm station. I figure the other one I could have look at the packing gland.
If your a welder, that Argon bottle may make a decent extinguisher?
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Old 14-05-2017, 05:28   #50
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Re: Fire Extinguisher Discussion

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KISS

My wife came up with this idea after reading about the boat fire and sinking of the boat down in Mexico early last summer. Whenever we're underway for a passage or day hop, this is what our forward head sink looks like. The hose is 75ft and will reach anywhere on the boat above or below, and is connected to 200 gallons of fresh water.

The sink to hose connection was purchased at the Home Depot for around $10 and is detachable with a quick connect that remains on the faucet.
Unless the fire is VERY small and Class A (ordinary combustibles) That hose set up will not help you much. I suspect your domestic water supply will likely only be 2-3 GPM. You need either an engine driven or large electric pump (again with its own power supply independent of the ship's DC buss) with at LEAST 25 to 50 gpm through a MINIMUM " to 1" hose. Even a Class B & C fire will succumb to that much water flow with a good automatic fog nozzle.

Look up what USCG requires of an inspected vessel.
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Old 14-05-2017, 05:50   #51
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Re: Fire Extinguisher Discussion

Like I wrote several times earlier, we have at least 15 dry chemical extinguishers on board, plus one in the engine compartment (soon to be two) and a fire blanket.... plus the hose for small or re-ignition type fires. It's likely that most of the extinguishers are 5-8 years old and all of them still in the green zone.

If our turbo started a re-ignition type fire, I feel reasonably confident that our 4-6 gpm water pump directing a continuous stream of water onto the fire will help the situation more than having someone run to find a bucket, then fill it up with two gallons and then run and dump it on the fire.... then repeat.

I'm sure our preparedness surpasses most other boaters in this regard. The last time I checked, there was no room for a firetruck onboard our boat.

Many thanks for all the contributions to this thread.
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Old 14-05-2017, 06:05   #52
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Re: Fire Extinguisher Discussion

I had a fire in the upper room of my clinic in Ireland.

4 powder extinguishers quite old.

I went through three before finding the final one worked....

It was downstairs in the clinic...By the time i ran and got it... the fire had got bigger.. had the first one worked it would have been out quickly...

I have my extinguishers professionally tested annually and replaced every three years.

The fear remains.
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Old 14-05-2017, 06:12   #53
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Re: Fire Extinguisher Discussion

I'd like to make another point, and no direspect intended towards firefighters...

Example: We had a house fire three years ago caused by spontaneous combustion which started in a waste basket with some rags used to stain some trim work with linseed oid based stain. We woke up at 2:00am to a house filled with to odor of smoke and a light haze. Most firefighters I'm assuming would recommend pulling the alarm, exiting the house and waiting patiently outside for them to come and extinguish the fire. In other workds, leave it to the professionals.

Here's what we did: Ran downstairs, discovered the smoldering rags (which were incredibly hot), opened the basement bulkhead and threw to bin out into the snow. End of problem. The fire department was never called.

The situation on a boat is the same... the boat will burn up completely before help ever arrives. We need to be able to deal with this situation ourselves.

Yes, spontaneous cumbustion is real, it does happen.
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Old 14-05-2017, 06:17   #54
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Re: Fire Extinguisher Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by weavis View Post
I had a fire in the upper room of my clinic in Ireland.

4 powder extinguishers quite old.

I went through three before finding the final one worked....

It was downstairs in the clinic...By the time i ran and got it... the fire had got bigger.. had the first one worked it would have been out quickly...

I have my extinguishers professionally tested annually and replaced every three years.

The fear remains.
I rode my bike earlier today in the resort town of Grado, Italy. The airshow was fantastic!

I didn't wear a helmet.
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Old 14-05-2017, 06:18   #55
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Re: Fire Extinguisher Discussion

What has this to do with having fire extinguishers in date?

You lost me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
I'd like to make another point, and no direspect intended towards firefighters...

Example: We had a house fire three years ago caused by spontaneous combustion which started in a waste basket with some rags used to stain some trim work with linseed oid based stain. We woke up at 2:00am to a house filled with to odor of smoke and a light haze. Most firefighters I'm assuming would recommend pulling the alarm, exiting the house and waiting patiently outside for them to come and extinguish the fire. In other workds, leave it to the professionals.

Here's what we did: Ran downstairs, discovered the smoldering rags (which were incredibly hot), opened the basement bulkhead and threw to bin out into the snow. End of problem. The fire department was never called.

The situation on a boat is the same... the boat will burn up completely before help ever arrives. We need to be able to deal with this situation ourselves.

Yes, spontaneous cumbustion is real, it does happen.
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Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
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Old 14-05-2017, 06:19   #56
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Re: Fire Extinguisher Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
I rode my bike earlier today in the resort town of Grado, Italy. The airshow was fantastic!

I didn't wear a helmet.
But if you fell off you wish you would have...
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Old 14-05-2017, 06:22   #57
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Re: Fire Extinguisher Discussion

Lets just get back on track.

Fire extinguisher are units that everyone wishes to never use.

When you need them you need to know they work.

A bit like liferafts.

I had a life raft out of expiry and check date.

I carried it on the boat. One day I decided to pay the fee and get it checked and serviced..

IT DID NOT WORK!

Made me think.
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10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
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Old 14-05-2017, 06:24   #58
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Re: Fire Extinguisher Discussion

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What has this to do with having fire extinguishers in date?

You lost me.
I'm willing to accept the extremely small amount of risk. FWIW.... I didn't fall off and land on my head.
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Old 14-05-2017, 06:27   #59
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Re: Fire Extinguisher Discussion

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Lets just get back on track.

Fire extinguisher are units that everyone wishes to never use.

When you need them you need to know they work.

A bit like liferafts.

I had a life raft out of expiry and check date.

I carried it on the boat. One day I decided to pay the fee and get it checked and serviced..

IT DID NOT WORK!

Made me think.
Just climb into the dinghy, ours is more seaworthy than the liferaft anyway.
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Old 14-05-2017, 07:21   #60
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Re: Fire Extinguisher Discussion

I'd get halon if I could. I researched this years ago when I designed a fire extinguisher installation for an aircraft. It's great stuff. The biggest impact per kg and no mess or damage. It's not possible to get it for anything in the EU except for commercial aviation, maybe in the US you can, but there are plenty of replacement alternatives that are nearly as good. R134 extinguishant for example. It works best in closed spaces, where the gas will prevent combustion until it has cooled enough to be safe. I'd keep at least one bottle for the electric panel or similar contained fires where other extinguishants could do a lot of damage.
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