Falling over board (Case Histories) - Sobering

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by Tnflakbait

It is simple. If you fall over you are dead. Don't fall over.

That's what I tell anyone who play's boat's with me,

Saying that, we have got everyone back that fell in, nice day, 12 knot's of wind, inshore racing.

Dave

[Charlie]

I read an article in a hunting magazine about a $500 life jacket. It seemed kind of silly to me but I read it anyway. So the jacket was only $75 but he had flares, a GPS, a handheld VHF, and a few other things that he attached to the jacket driving up the cost. I wish I hadn't thrown it away after this thread.

OK What would you attach to the life jacket?

1) A strobe.

2) intergal harness.

3) flares and smoke

4) Handheld VHF

5) flashlight

6) Mirror

7) Dye marker

Don't know that a GPS would do much good. Anyone else have an idea of what to attach to a PFD?

[S/V Elusive]

I think that a lanyard or line to the boat or a jackline would be a good thing to attach.

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by Charlie

OK What would you attach to the life jacket?

1) A strobe.

2) intergal harness.

3) flares and smoke

4) Handheld VHF

5) flashlight

6) Mirror

7) Dye marker

Don't know that a GPS would do much good. Anyone else have an idea of what to attach to a PFD?

The strobe, flare and smoke, plus a whistle. that's a lot to haul around, right there.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Hard to argue against things on that list - just I guess when hitting the water you would need the lifejacket to inflate ASAP...........

[Boracay]

I really would like to carry a personal 406 EPIRB.
News Report

[muskoka]

Originally Posted by Chris31415

I really would like to carry a personal 406 EPIRB.
News Report

Just curious - but why wouldn't you just buy one?

[muskoka]

Originally Posted by sneuman

Another interesting thing is that many of these cases appear to have occurred in coastal waters, but lives could have been saved if the skipper and crew had taken precautions that many of us would only consider if going...

Oddly enough, I think you've hit the nail on the head. A lot of people are bombing around in 'protected' waters in close proximity to swimmers and other boats. And because it's not perceived as boating 'offshore' the common view is that you need little or no qualifications. And why not, the kids can drive too.

Last year in Hong Kong, a yachtsman was killed coming up from diving by a motorized inflatable. The inflatable was driving at high speed through a bunch of anchored boats. Not more than two weeks after I was on a junk and an inflatable came in at high speed (50hp zapcat at full throttle) whilst people were swimming - I flagged him and suggested he should slow down and exercise caution. He told me to F*** off.

When I'd graduated university, I went windsurfing (again inshore stuff) with a bunch of mates and my friend borrowed my brand new board. We watched in horror as a motor boat pulling a skiier drove straight towards him. He dove at the last minute and the boat hit the windsurfer square on and split it. No injuries, thank God. But guess what, the ski boat driver was a professional pilot - very contrite and paid all damages and mortified that he'd come within a metre of killing someone. He was literally as shaken as my friend.

But its that old combination of sunshine and a long weekend in crowded waters. And some very fast boats with poor drivers.

[hellosailor]

muskoka-
"and an inflatable came in at high speed (50hp zapcat at full throttle) whilst people were swimming " I realize that HK and the US are run differently <G> but here in the US sometimes we pick up the VHF or the cell phone and drop a dime to the USCG to report reckless boating.

(Keeps 'em out of trouble when they send the fast boats out trying to chase jetskis and the like, too.<G>)

A couple of jetskis kept wavehopping and disappearing under the bow coming up around the Battery in Manhattan one day, and that's sometimes a difficult area because of currents, traffic, and ferry traffic. Last thing you need are jetskis in a blind spot. They looked AWFULLY surprised when the gofast got sent after them, apparently they didn't realize USCG HQ on Governor's Island was over their shoulders. (Sadly shut down now.)

And I give 'em credit, the USCG may have their plates full but when you report reckless operation--they go.

I don't waste time arguing with the brainless, I'll let someone who gets paid for it give them a summons instead. Makes a more lasting impression, and sometimes convinces them to just go play GOLF instead.

[cooper]

It may be of interest to some .... Here in Victoria, Australia we have 1. Compulsory licenses for all power boats (that is anything that has an engine. 2. A second license for jet skis 3. Compulsory wearing of life jackets on smaller boats at all times. 4. compulsory wearing of life jackets on larger boats in any time of heightened danger, (this includes solo anytime and at night anytime for ALL crew) 5. Mandatory saftey gear including life rings, water proof torches, EPIRBS, fire extenquishers and a whole lot more. These rule where met with resistance when first introduced but evrybody now wears a life jacket. The police do prosecute and even use jetskis to &quot;sneak up&quot;. They have taken the same attitude as with our road toll (which l believe is the lowest per car in the world). They looked at why people where drowning and legislated around it. We also have .05 blood alcahol rule. It will be interesting to see in a couple of years time how the count measures up with before the new rules. The only thing that annoys me is the rule that my dingy has to have seperate registration (and fees) if it moves more than 300 metres from the &quot;mother ship&quot; . It is then no longer classed as a tender. Not enough sensible flexibility in that rule. Even though l went out and repaced all my brand new life jackets with brand new blow up types to accomadate wearing them all the time, l on the whole dont begrudge the new rules.Food for thought Cheers Martin

[hellosailor]

Cooper, I've come to suspect that the reason politicians around the world have been in favor of so much anti-Darwinian protectionism, is because that way the voters will breed more idiots to vote for them.

Protecting the witless and helpless and innocents (invalids & children & bystanders, etc.) is one thing, protecting those who should know better...needs to be made illegal.<G>

[muskoka]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Cooper, I've come to suspect that the reason politicians around the world have been in favor of so much anti-Darwinian protectionism, is because that way the voters will breed more idiots to vote for them.

Protecting the witless and helpless and innocents (invalids & children & bystanders, etc.) is one thing, protecting those who should know better...needs to be made illegal.<G>

I think you've not quite hit the nail on the head. I don't think the two examples I'd put forth have anything to do with Darwinism or anti-D or politics. The fact of the matter is that a diver and a windsurfer were cut down by people driving high powered boats carelessly. One instance cost a life, and the other very nearly so. And in neither case were the victims at fault.

I think high powered boats need to be regulated like automobiles. Licensed, insured and held fully responsible for their actions. I don't think there's any political dimension to it - it's simply the regulation of a potentially lethal vehicle.

[hellosailor]

Muskoka-
" I don't think the two examples I'd put forth have anything to do with Darwinism or anti-D or politics. "
I would argue that they very much do. Consider a regulation to carry or wear life preservers. For adults, that regulation serves to protect those who should be free to make their own choice--live or die. For children, the context of the regulation changes to become protecting the helpless and innocents, since we presume children are unlearned and their parents/guardians are not necessarily competent.
In the same vein, regulating boat operators protects the innocents that they may be running down. Intended or not, the machinations of a society *are* social darwinism. Look at a primitive society where there are "lions and tigers and bears oh my!" outside the village. People tend to have some situational awareness, because those who ignore the environment get eaten. Or, at least mauled. Now look at any "modern" society. People stop at the top of escalators (blocking the folks coming up behind them, who have no way to avoid them) and wander in a daze with no idea of what is going on. They buy--and light--cigarettes at gasoline stations, several of which blow up from that cause in the US alone every year.
Mind you, I'm not endorsing eugenics--I'm just saying that at a certain point, if there is to be any freedom in a society we need to say "You know, we're going to protect the young, the old, the helpless...But the rest of you folks are going to have to stand up and take some resposibility for yourselves."
Instead, we have politicians who routinely say "Oh look! I'm going to be your SAVIOR and protect you from all these dangers with my MAGIC LEGISLATION! So vote for me, I'll save you!"

It's become sadly routine. As the US goes into another presidential election cycle, perhaps I'm just hypersensitive to it, we're getting a lot of domestic terrorism right now, from pols who are claiming it's a dangerous world--but THEY can protect us from it. And if you need to strike terror in the hearts of voters in order to get their votes--that's terrorism.

Life jackets? Like seat belts, if you're "of age" and don't want to wear them, that's a personal choice. Remove the choices, remove the freedoms, and that's social darwinism. (Well, isn't everything, either way?)

[cbac]

Just passed the ASA104, probably not a big deal but our Captain/instructor was heavy on MOBs. We ran at least 6 apiece (there were 4 of us students) so that's 24 MOBs. That included channels, open bay and one in 8 to 10 foot open seas.
We ran teams and solo MObs, The solos were right on as my wife and I came to realize that we were capable of pulling a figure 8 and snagging our wet asses out of the water.
What shocked me was sitting in the marina and talking to more seasoned sailers and discovering that not one of them had a plan for a MOB.

[MarkJ]

There is an Australian product that I have seen at the boat show for a few years and do wish to buy for the new boat. Its a wireless transmitter thats worn and when someone falls off the boat an alarm sounds on board, and the engine can be cut to neutral, or I think sent up to windward.

its called Mobilarm (used to be Mobilert) I know raython has a product out too, however the battery charging of the Mobilarm is far better / cheaper.