Cruisers Forum

Join CruisersForum Today

Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 06-01-2007, 17:52   #46
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 4

Originally Posted by cat man do
And what did happen to the boat that ran them down?

There was no injuries on the other vessel and the damage to his boat was about $5,000.

At first the Sea Ray owner claimed the cause of the collision was my fault. Something about my transom got in the way of his bow. That's when the Lawyers got involved.

I had to prove in an court of law that i was operating my vessel safely, and correctly. Let me tell you that a Court goes by the rules of road. 22 1/2 degrees abate the beam means just that in an court of law.

The owner of the Sea ray was cited by the Coast Guard for "negligent Operation."

He was also found liable by an New York court for the damages and injuries which at this time exceed $500,000. His insurance co. has appealed the jury verdict and we are awaiting the case to be heard by the Appellate Court.

It has been 3 1/2 years with no end in site but, we (my Wife, son and myself) are still sailing.

Sailorny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2007, 18:10   #47
CF Adviser
Intentional Drifter's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pac NW
Boat: Boatless, for now, Cat enthusiast
Posts: 1,285
This entire thread and the links to it should be required reading in every sailing course!

Sailorny, I hope the end of this nightmare comes soon for you. Thankfully, you and your family are still with us.


Intentional Drifter

Observations are gold; hypotheses, silver; and conclusions, bronze.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.--Ben Franklin

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.--Daniel Patrick Moynihan
Intentional Drifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2007, 18:30   #48
Registered User
cat man do's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia [until the boats launched]
Boat: 50ft powercat, light,long and low powered
Posts: 4,409
Images: 36
Thank's for that Sailorny.

Glad you escaped relatively unscathed and tracked down the guy in the stinker.

Coming from a sail background you can all be assured that I will take into account the requirements of my fellow sailors.

"Money can't buy you happiness but it can buy you a yacht large enough to pull up right alongside it"...............David Lee Roth
Long Distance Motorboat Cruising – It Is Possible on a Small Budget
cat man do is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2007, 05:37   #49
Registered User
Ram's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2005
Location: Cruising Greece
Boat: Cat in the med & Trawler in Florida
Posts: 2,298
Images: 27
I used to run a dive boat for 10 years off of Palm Beach so I used to make a living out of finding people in the water and getting them back in the boat daily , I would take out 6 divers at a time twice a day for a half day trips. In this area we have the Gulf Stream sometime bumping all the way to the beach with a current of up to 4 knots so your moving right along. One day After picking up my divers from a dive they needed about an hour of surface time before the next dive. I wanted to get in and get a few fish for the table , something I had never done up until then because I had no one I trusted with the wheel wile I was down, but today was a nice day.

My friend/mate who would come along and crew for me most weekends for a few years said he could handed the boat (this I was sure of I thought) so I & a buddy dropped in - we carryed a 2-300 ft line with a large red ball so the boat could follow the ball , and sometimes if the current was moving fast enough the ball would get sucked under once it was hooked up to the bottom as what happened in this instance, So my friend on the boat lost sight of the ball, only for a few moments (then it usually pops up again if you hold your position)

During this few moments my mate did not hold his position and started looking for the ball by moving the boat and looking in the wrong direction. And about the same time my buddy who was diving with me could not retrieve the ball line off the bottom so we left the ball line hooked to the bottom & came up, and the boat was only about 100 feet in front of us with 8 people onboard . The boat was facing away from us looking for the ball, so we blew our air horns and no one heard us, we could see everyone clearly enjoying themselves on board so we raised our sausages and no one saw us as we kept drifting away from the boat we were blowing the horns wile the boat was slowing motoring the opposite direction until the boat became very small a mile oe so out . And then we saw them turn the boat around and come toward us within a few hundred yards looking for us in good conditions bright sunny day and 8 people all looking could not see or hear us and turned again back up stream toward the ball and then came back again --then turned and eventully went out of sight completely.

We drifted for hours and at least a dozen boats past with in 100 feet of us not seeing us at all , even with our red sausages up and our air horns blaring. The coast guard had radioed an alert over the radio and was looking for us for hours and never found us. Then after 7 hours drifting and the sun was almost down a large sport fishing boat almost ran us down and saw us only after passing us, We both had the red sausage up and air horns blaring in bright sun all day in 4 foot seas. This in an area with about a hundred boats with in a mile of us at any given time. .
My mate who was running my boat at the time had a dozen years experience on the water (not as captain) All this and it we were lucky to be found. So it seems to me if you go overboard in less than perfect conditions its unlikely that you will be found alive . Air horns can only be heard if there’s no wind blowing or your down wind of the horn 300 feet at best, the 3 ft, red sauges are not much good you need the 5-6 foot ones that are yellow to be of any good.
And for me I have always had a good “feel” as to where to find the divers based on the speed of the current drift of the boat and my position at time of drop. So I may get lucky and be able to find my girl friend if she goes over, but Im certain she would not find me , no matter how long I drill her !
Ram is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2007, 09:35   #50
Registered User
muskoka's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sai Kung, Hong Kong
Boat: FP Lavezzi 40 / Hatteras 48
Posts: 775
Originally Posted by cat man do
Or how about a helium filled signal orange balloon,on 20 ft of cord, atached to the inflatable vest of course.
Thats something I'd been thinking of - basically, a life jacket (or Batman utility belt) with three cylinders: One inflates the vest, Two inflates a helium balloon on a massive tether, and Three inflates a floating buoy on a stout 10 or 20m tether. In fact, you could package 2 & 3 in a bum-bag and don the lifevest under the same conditions you would normally.

The idea of cylinder two is so obvious I can't believe it's not on the market. And the third, well that allows the rescue boat to simply aim for the line like picking up a waterskier. You don't have to risk navigating a 5 ton boat - under power - beside an MOB, just cross the tether and use it to reel them in gently.

And of course, this should all include a Mobialert type MOB system.

It's almost like we're having the same discussions Ralph Nader had back in the 70's about seat belts and automobile safety. Our Beneteau is so full of limb damaging sharp edges and brain concussing objects below decks it's unbelievable. I rarely perform any maintenance task below decks without drawing blood. And the f***ng trim around the companionway is sharp enough to slice proscuitto. And it's no different than every other boat out there.

Every surface on a boat should be rounded to the point of minimizing injury. Those that can't should be padded using the same high tech materials used in dashboards. An automobile is built for a crash that probably won't happen. Whereas, sailboats commonly thrash you around like a washing machine and seem to be designed to bruise and draw blood.

Is it too much to ask for at least rounded corners?

BTW, this is a really good discussion.
muskoka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2007, 13:54   #51

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,742
Muskoka, 20 years ago you could buy a little "tuna" can with a self-inflating rescue marker ballon in it. Helium filled and then compressed into the can along with a tether. Dunno if they are still on the market but I suspect there's a reason they aren't.

Helium is almost as bad as hydrogen. That is, you can stick it in almost anything, even a welded stainless tube, and it leaks out right through the molecules of the container. Dunno how long a small cylinder of it would last.

Military personnel don't use balloons, they use smoke and flares. Yes, you can buy smoke flares that are the size of 35mm film cans (and larger) milspec rated for submersion and waterproofing in various colors. Typically a blaze orange one will get attention real fast, and they store well too.
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2007, 14:13   #52
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,594
''The trouble with most folks isn't so much their ignorance. It's know'n so many things that ain't so.'' - 19th century humorist Josh Billings
"To know that you do not know is the best. To pretend to know when you do not know is a disease." Lao-Tzu
"It ain't what you know that hurts you. It's what you do know that ain't so." Will Rogers

Cape Dory 25D Seraph
rtbates is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2007, 14:25   #53
Registered User
Chuteman's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Charleston, SC USA
Posts: 491
Tether Test

Practical Sailor just published an updated Tether test......Jan '07 issue pg 20
Sailing On a Short Leash
Chuteman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2007, 15:13   #54
Registered User
Connemara's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Boat: Mirage 27 in Toronto; Wright 10 in Auckland
Posts: 681
Images: 2
Originally Posted by colemj
Be honest now - what do you think your first mate would REALLY do?

I'm hoping against hope she'd stop.
She SAYS she would.

Connemara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-01-2007, 17:09   #55
Senior Cruiser
sneuman's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2003
Location: Jamaica
Boat: Tayana 37 Cutter
Posts: 3,167
Images: 37
Another interesting thing is that many of these cases appear to have occurred in coastal waters, but lives could have been saved if the skipper and crew had taken precautions that many of us would only consider if going offshore.

On example: Properly rigged jackstays and tethers. I know a lot of people wouldn't think of fiddling with them save for an offshore passage. But once you've seen a crewmember saved by this simple and obvious precaution, you become a believer. My next boat will have jackstays and standing orders to use them regardless whether we're cruising coastal or offshore!
sneuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-01-2007, 13:36   #56

Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,167
Falling overboard

Did anyone notice that the lions share of calls for assistance are from powerboats . Sailors take care of themselves far better. Powerboaters need nanies( and nappies changed )far more often.
Brent Swain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-01-2007, 13:39   #57

Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,167
Power boaters also leave the marina far less often. They spend most of their time chasing the money to operate their far more expensive boats, which leaves them far less opportunity to fall overboard.
Brent Swain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-01-2007, 04:11   #58
Senior Cruiser

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: California
Boat: 1980 Endeavour 43 (Ketch)
Posts: 2,453
Louis - like any segment of folk, there are always those that seem less competent - sailboaters included. This thread is doing very well in discussing some very serious things. I don't believe that trying to hash up the thread with 'powerboater vs. sailboater' is germane or in the same caliber as the rest of the posts.
S/V Elusive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-01-2007, 14:25   #59
Registered User
Auspicious's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Boat: HR 40
Posts: 1,847
Send a message via Skype™ to Auspicious
I got two very clear messages from those stories: 1. don't waste time getting sails down and 2. don't put the engine in gear.
S/V Auspicious
Beware cut and paste sailors
Auspicious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-01-2007, 18:10   #60
Registered User
Tnflakbait's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Southern California
Boat: CSK, 33' Aita Pe'ape'a
Posts: 338
Images: 7
It is simple. If you fall over you are dead. Don't fall over.

Tnflakbait is offline   Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Lost at sea CaptainK Powered Boats 12 22-04-2006 15:03

Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 23:48.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.