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Old 13-07-2009, 11:19   #16
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ATF? Isn't that "BATFE" now?

Sadly, a political entity, run by appointees who owe favors and serve masters, not a good source for objective information.
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Old 13-07-2009, 11:52   #17
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Those guys are on Meth. A while back my girlfriend went to a cruising seminar for women and the women teaching one of the classes said that in order to protect themselves from privacy they brought 12 guage shot gun shells to load into their flare gun. Wouldn't this blow up the muzzle of the flare gun? Sounded kind of dumb to me.
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Old 13-07-2009, 12:20   #18
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Unbusted, the short answer is yes: as has already been pointed out, a recent test in Lats & Atts proved that the same occurred even when the flare guns were using metal liners designed for the use of 12 gauge shells. Having said that, can flare guns be used as a deterrent? Just this year there was a case reported on Noonsite where a sailor who was attacked and shot at by pirates, successfully repelled his attackers by firing a single flare at the pirate's boat.

Lets face it, in those circumstances it is likely a case of 'choose your poison', but even then, firing off 12 gauge shotgun shells from a standard flare gun is too much like knowingly drinking Jimmy Jones koolaid to be a viable choice.

Brad
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Old 13-07-2009, 12:27   #19
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"Wouldn't this blow up the muzzle of the flare gun?"

There's all kinds of shotgn shells and some of them might not blow up the flare gun--once. Olin has dodged the question saying only that this is not the intended use and it shouldn't be done. Of course, you could always submit it to Mythbusters or one of the other shows that need fodder.

Of course, there's a name for folks who are going into harm's way without any defenses OR any need to go there.

It is just a shame that they're going to give firearms and flares a bad name while they're playing their game.
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Old 13-07-2009, 18:12   #20
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Of course, there's a name for folks who are going into harm's way without any defenses OR any need to go there.
It is just a shame that they're going to give firearms and flares a bad name while they're playing their game.
You lost me. What is the name for an unarmed cruising sailor? BTW, people who buy guns and shoot up shopping malls, schools and churches give guns a fairly bad name.
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Old 13-07-2009, 19:00   #21
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Of course, there's a name for folks who are going into harm's way without any defenses OR any need to go there.

It is just a shame that they're going to give firearms and flares a bad name while they're playing their game.
I am mystified. I would like to know;

1. Where are the areas you need a defense (gun) since you are going into harm’s way.
2. Where are the areas you need not go.
3. How can a person without a gun give firearms a bad name.
4. What is the game they are playing while giving firearms a bad name.
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Old 13-07-2009, 20:33   #22
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I'm not talking about cruising sailors, but about folks who would plan ahead to protect themselves with a kludge like a flare gun. Apparently thinking, that they can go somewhere that is dangerous because the kludge will be enough protection--as opposed to either simply NOT going to someplace that is known to be unsafe, or going there with a proper and adequate means of protecting themselves.

If I really wanted to visit a place (anyplace, within the US or outside of it, including those countries on the State Department watch lists and prohibited lists) before I go there I ask myself, is this a safe place to visit? Is it reckless for me to go there right now? And, do I feel like I need some means of protection to go there? If I need "protection" beyond what I'm allowed to carry--then I don't need to go there. And if I do go there, knowing that I should carry more protection than I will be allowed to carry, that makes me a fool at best.

Forget about cruising sailors, a fool is a fool and the sea does not tolerate fools kindly. It tends to take them, one way or another.

Gunkholing on the Coast of Somalia? I'm sure it would be fun, I'll opt for the "single malt distilleries and smoked salmon" tour of Scotland instead. Don't need much protection in Scotland, as long as you can outrun the haggis. :-)

There's plenty of world to see, where "civilization" tends to make piracy uncommon. And plenty of places where terrorism, failed states, narco-politics, banana republics, and other problems make "safe passage" into a concept right up there next to "Here Be Dragons".
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Old 13-07-2009, 20:44   #23
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Hellosailor, I fully understand. Well put. I took what you posted the wrong way. My bad. Chris
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Old 13-07-2009, 21:12   #24
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I'm not talking about cruising sailors, but about folks who would plan ahead to protect themselves with a kludge like a flare gun. Apparently thinking, that they can go somewhere that is dangerous because the kludge will be enough protection--as opposed to either simply NOT going to someplace that is known to be unsafe, or going there with a proper and adequate means of protecting themselves.
Good explanation, well put.

Risk analysis is what it is all about.

It bothers me that some people may actually rely on a flare gun or a modification to it as protection. Perhaps in an unforeseen situation it could be used.
While a gun may make you feel secure it s rarely needed. How many times has a gun been needed.
All cruisers know where the hotspots are. You find out from your fellow cruisers and on the SSB nets.
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Old 14-07-2009, 00:18   #25
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Unbusted, the short answer is yes:
Brad
I'm sorry but the short answer was a bit short and I didn't understand what you were saying yes to. I am not trying to push this point and would never try this myself but can you shoot a shotgun bullet from a flare gun without blowing your hand off?
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Old 14-07-2009, 01:43   #26
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I'm sorry but the short answer was a bit short and I didn't understand what you were saying yes to......
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...... Wouldn't this blow up the muzzle of the flare gun? .....
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Originally Posted by Southern Star View Post
Unbusted, the short answer is yes: ...
Does it make sense now?
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Old 14-07-2009, 02:05   #27
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Those guys are on Meth. A while back my girlfriend went to a cruising seminar for women and the women teaching one of the classes said that in order to protect themselves from privacy they brought 12 guage shot gun shells to load into their flare gun. Wouldn't this blow up the muzzle of the flare gun? Sounded kind of dumb to me.
One thing is sure, shooting a 12 gauge shotgun shell from a flare gun will protect them from privacy!
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Old 14-07-2009, 10:45   #28
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Good explanation, well put.

Risk analysis is what it is all about.

It bothers me that some people may actually rely on a flare gun or a modification to it as protection. Perhaps in an unforeseen situation it could be used.
While a gun may make you feel secure it s rarely needed. How many times has a gun been needed.
All cruisers know where the hotspots are. You find out from your fellow cruisers and on the SSB nets.
I doubt anyone would plan on using a flare gun for protection. It would simply be an expedient if the situation arose. Having said that, avoid those areas where there is an obvious risk and the need to carry a weapon diminishes to near zero. On the other hand, some people seem to have a psychological need to play Rambo. To these people, it's necessary to imagine 10 pirates for every cruiser in order to rationalize their need.
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Old 14-07-2009, 10:49   #29
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Does it make sense now?
yup thanks. I'm glad then that they are teaching that at an accredited sailing school. Seems very weird to me.
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Old 14-07-2009, 11:11   #30
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What you need is one of the big old brass 25mm flare guns. Then you machine an insert for a shotgun shell. I have heard of 12 gage being done. I did mine for a 410 shot shell out of 4150 maxel steel. Had 410 buckshot ammo. I would worry about the back end of a plastic one coming apart....maybe not if you go to 410 though. Let's face it, you are only going to use it once in your life likely....if ever...
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