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Old 07-03-2014, 14:50   #31
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Re: EPIRBs - The Differences

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Originally Posted by mpatter894 View Post
it does not matter where you by the epirb what matters is where you register the epirb I hold a GMDSS maintainers license this link should help out the most important thing is to register the thing with the right mmsi number if you already have a dsc VHF or SSB system in your boat the mmsi number will need to be the same as the epirb . When they came out with The gmdss (global maritime distress system) they did away with radio operatorts on big ships because the system is designed to work as a suite with all the radio comms on board the vessel that's why you vhf ssb and epirb all need the same mssi number,
How can I register my 406 MHz EPIRB, ELT or PLB?

Michael
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I think you have missed the point of the OP question!
It actually matters a great deal where you buy the beacon!

You have to register the beacon in your own country (unless you live in one of the countries that do not have a national register - see your link above for a list of such countries).

The country code of the beacon ID has to match the country of registration.

This country code is not easily changed.

So if the OP buys a beacon in say Canada, it will be supplied with an Canadian country code. If he lives in say the UK, he can't register it in the UK until the country code has been changed.
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Old 07-03-2014, 15:03   #32
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Re: EPIRBs - The Differences

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Are you sure of that?

So , 6 months after you buy your EPIRB one of your three contacts pops his clogs, another changes his phone number, and the third buggers off with your best friend... you can't change your contact details and so then what happens???

UK EPIRB registration details can be updated on line, here is the link

EPIRB Registration Form
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Old 07-03-2014, 15:09   #33
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Re: EPIRBs - The Differences

And also..you can register a foreign flag boat on a national register... at least you can in Australia.
As an Australian resident my UK flagged boat was in Australia at the time I bought my EPIRBs ( one in the cabin, one stowed in the liferaft).
AMSA phoned and queried the callsign but were happy with my explanation.
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Old 07-03-2014, 15:49   #34
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Re: EPIRBs - The Differences

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Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
I think you have missed the point of the OP question!
It actually matters a great deal where you buy the beacon!

You have to register the beacon in your own country (unless you live in one of the countries that do not have a national register - see your link above for a list of such countries).

The country code of the beacon ID has to match the country of registration.

This country code is not easily changed.

So if the OP buys a beacon in say Canada, it will be supplied with an Canadian country code. If he lives in say the UK, he can't register it in the UK until the country code has been changed.
wrong when he buys an epirb when he registers it with mssi the first numbers in the mmsi number are the country designation lets say for example I am on a vessel doing an inspection on my epirb in the USA and drop it and it breaks so I call my agent he gets me a new epirb all I have to do is regitar the epirb with my existing mmsi number that I got in the beginning for my ship which is registered in the UK for example so I leave port back to the uk with a epirb bought in the us but registered in the uk it has nothing to do with where you by it its all about the mssi assigned to the unit I am a GMDSS certified maintainer argue with me if you like but you are wrong
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Old 07-03-2014, 16:09   #35
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EPIRBs - The Differences

Ok GMDSS maintainer. Explain how you register am epirb that has no MMSI,

PS don't argue it can't be done


PS there are 8 protocols in an epirb can you explain there purpose.
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Old 07-03-2014, 16:23   #36
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Re: EPIRBs - The Differences

"The nice thing about SPOT is that I can update my SOS message just before the trip."
You can do that with a USCG (NOAA) registered EPIRB as well. You have online access 24x7 and you can update the information on the registration form, which includes a large comment area. In fact, I just got my bi-annual nag notice from NOAA asking me to go online, check and update the registration, so they can send out the new sticker. SPOT won't nag you to check and update, will they?
And there's no excuse for "someone put the wrong data in for me" because these days? Right, you can verify it yourself, correct it yourself, update it yourself.

As for old EPIRBs not using GPS...golly gee, GPS wasn't always there for us. Wasn't always available to civilians, wasn't always affordable. GPS is a $5 chip set these days. No big deal to add one in. Go back 10-20 years, and it was triple digits and a whole circuit board assembly instead.

I would expect that if you buy a "foreign" EPIRB and can't register it in your home country, it can still be registered in the country it "belongs" to, no? Although it might b inconvenient trying to fill out a registration form in Mandarin Chinese. Or Latvian.
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Old 07-03-2014, 16:36   #37
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Re: EPIRBs - The Differences

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Ok GMDSS maintainer. Explain how you register am epirb that has no MMSI,

Dave
I've just been into the AMSA site to check my details.... no MMSI info registered against my beacons... first registered 11 years ago, second one about 5 years ago . I bet a lot of boats sailing around with 406 EPIRBs don't have an MMSI.

I'm just going to phone out for some popcorn..
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Old 07-03-2014, 17:02   #38
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Re: EPIRBs - The Differences

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Ok GMDSS maintainer. Explain how you register am epirb that has no MMSI,

PS don't argue it can't be done


PS there are 8 protocols in an epirb can you explain there purpose.
Dave
when you reg the epirb which the hex code given to that epirb will now have all your vessel info address phone etc the protocol actually has 10 parts here nor there doesn't matter you don't need the mmsi number to register it but if you have a dsc systems you can get the epirb hex number associated with the mmsi number
To use DSC techniques, an MF/HF DSC, VHF DSC and/or AIS transceiver must be permanently programmed with a unique nine-digit identification number known as the Maritime Mobile Service Identity (MMSI). This can be regarded as the electronic equivalent of a radio call sign and uniquely identifies that ship or coast station. It is important to recognize that the MMSI identifies the vessel or coast station, and if more than one fixed transceiver and/or AIS transceiver is carried they are all to be programmed with the same MMSI. A vessel's 406 MHz Emergency Position Indicating Radio Beacon (EPIRB) may also be programmed with the same MMSI. The selling agent can program the MMSI into the transceiver and AIS equipment
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Old 07-03-2014, 17:10   #39
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Re: EPIRBs - The Differences

GMDSS maintainer might look at this link before he girds his loins for his " argument "
http://www.cospas-sarsat.org/en/beac...g-tutorial/255

This is a picture of the standard location protocols. One of a series of allowed protocols on the Epirb.

You'll notice that the second form is a coded serial number format comprising a country code and an identifying serial string made up of serial number and am cospas sarsat certification code.

This code is the default programmed by the beacon manufacturer. ( in the absence of any other protocol being so programmed )

You'll also notice that it's contains the country code. All beacon manufacturers code for the intended country of operation.

There is a reason for this. Epirb beacon databases are not global. Individual databases are maintained by each Epirb registering authority. ( or a common maintained by cospas sarsat for countries with no authority )

Hence when the ground station processes the hex code ( as a very minimum. ) it MUST know where to direct the query. Otherwise national rescue centres have to manually reroute the SAR lookup to the national MRCC so as to retrieve the registry information.

Hence I can, in the UK for example, buy a US coded EPIRB, as long as I register that in the USA registry all is well. ( which is what I personally have done ) , if on the other hand, I,m in Australia and I buy a US Epirb, then I must get the unit programmed locally ( using the mmsi or other protocol) and get the country code reprogrammed, so that the ground station will direct the data correctly.

What I can't do is simply register an US Epirb, without reprogramming onto the Australian registry.

Imagine the delays while say a US MRCC manually asks all the worlds registries to search to find a Epirb that it can't locate , even though the country code says its US. In practice it doesn't happen. The rescue assets are deployed to an unknown Epirb.

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Old 07-03-2014, 17:14   #40
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Re: EPIRBs - The Differences

In simple language for simple sailormen like me..

from the AMSA site...
*If you have any radio equipment that requires an MMSI number you will need to supply the make/model and serial number*

So you only need to have an MMSI if you have DSC and AIS which requires such a number... otherwise EPIRB registration doesn't require an MMSI number...
So it is writ.. https://www.beacons.amsa.gov.au/NewA...eFirstReg.aspx

I would not suggest that mpatter894 was wrong in his first post ... simply mistaken.
As a GMDSS fixer-upper he is always dealing with ships n stuff that have MMSI numbers.
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Old 07-03-2014, 17:16   #41
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EPIRBs - The Differences

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Originally Posted by mpatter894 View Post
when you reg the epirb which the hex code given to that epirb will now have all your vessel info address phone etc the protocol actually has 10 parts here nor there doesn't matter you don't need the mmsi number to register it but if you have a dsc systems you can get the epirb hex number associated with the mmsi number
To use DSC techniques, an MF/HF DSC, VHF DSC and/or AIS transceiver must be permanently programmed with a unique nine-digit identification number known as the Maritime Mobile Service Identity (MMSI). This can be regarded as the electronic equivalent of a radio call sign and uniquely identifies that ship or coast station. It is important to recognize that the MMSI identifies the vessel or coast station, and if more than one fixed transceiver and/or AIS transceiver is carried they are all to be programmed with the same MMSI. A vessel's 406 MHz Emergency Position Indicating Radio Beacon (EPIRB) may also be programmed with the same MMSI. The selling agent can program the MMSI into the transceiver and AIS equipment

You cannot register the wrong country code Epirb on another countries register.

You do not need an mmsi to correctly register EPIRBS , a registering country can decide what protocols it uses. Ireland for example did not support long format protocols until recently and as a result you could not register GPIRBs as all they used was the short format protocol, with the vessels CALL SIGN. ( not mmsi )

DSC has nothing to do with Epirbs , don't try and confuse things.

As I said, you cannot for very specific technical reasons register the wrong country code onto the wrong register. ( unless you reprogramme a secondary protocol )

Hence you register where you buy it ( if they allow that ) , not where you live

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Old 07-03-2014, 17:32   #42
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Re: EPIRBs - The Differences

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
DSC has nothing to do with Epirbs , don't try and confuse things.
Dave
Yes it does... if you have an MMSI for your DSC equipment you have to have that MMSI attached to your EPIRB rego so all are dancing to the same tune when the poo hits the fan and you abandon ship..
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Old 07-03-2014, 17:44   #43
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EPIRBs - The Differences

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Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
Yes it does... if you have an MMSI for your DSC equipment you have to have that MMSI attached to your EPIRB rego so all are dancing to the same tune when the poo hits the fan and you abandon ship..

NO you don't. The use of that protocol is purely a function of the registering countries decision. For example in the US , you could have a boat US mmsi or even a FCC issued mmsi and still register your Epirb with only the serial based protocol.

The same is true in the UK. The Epirb is not programmed with an mmsi number. But the mmsi number is captured in the registration database .

Hence again. Only UK country coded Epirbs can be placed in the UK registry. Hence a manufactured programmed code unit sold in the UK can be so registered while it's exact similar registered unit bought in the US cannot be used. But the UK buyer of an us Epirb can register it on the Us registry.

The country code must mAtch where the registration database lives otherwise the Epirb is effectively unregistered as there is no " global" searchable database

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Old 07-03-2014, 17:46   #44
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Re: EPIRBs - The Differences

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
GMDSS maintainer might look at this link before he girds his loins for his " argument "
Coding an EPIRB with a Standard Location Protocol

This is a picture of the standard location protocols. One of a series of allowed protocols on the Epirb.

You'll notice that the second form is a coded serial number format comprising a country code and an identifying serial string made up of serial number and am cospas sarsat certification code.

This code is the default programmed by the beacon manufacturer. ( in the absence of any other protocol being so programmed )

You'll also notice that it's contains the country code. All beacon manufacturers code for the intended country of operation.

There is a reason for this. Epirb beacon databases are not global. Individual databases are maintained by each Epirb registering authority. ( or a common maintained by cospas sarsat for countries with no authority )

Hence when the ground station processes the hex code ( as a very minimum. ) it MUST know where to direct the query. Otherwise national rescue centres have to manually reroute the SAR lookup to the national MRCC so as to retrieve the registry information.

Hence I can, in the UK for example, buy a US coded EPIRB, as long as I register that in the USA registry all is well. ( which is what I personally have done ) , if on the other hand, I,m in Australia and I buy a US Epirb, then I must get the unit programmed locally ( using the mmsi or other protocol) and get the country code reprogrammed, so that the ground station will direct the data correctly.

What I can't do is simply register an US Epirb, without reprogramming onto the Australian registry.

Imagine the delays while say a US MRCC manually asks all the worlds registries to search to find a Epirb that it can't locate , even though the country code says its US. In practice it doesn't happen. The rescue assets are deployed to an unknown Epirb.

Dave


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this is getting tiring if I bought a new epirb in the us and my boat was flagged in the uk I would do the following it does not matter where you buy the unit To verify that the unit is properly programmed for your country, view the UIN label on the back of the unit. In the event that the beacon is not programmed for your country, the sales agent (if properly equipped) can reprogram the unit for the correct country - See more at: EPIRB FAQs | ACR ARTEX
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Old 07-03-2014, 17:52   #45
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Re: EPIRBs - The Differences

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Originally Posted by mpatter894 View Post
this is getting tiring if I bought a new epirb in the us and my boat was flagged in the uk I would do the following it does not matter where you buy the unit To verify that the unit is properly programmed for your country, view the UIN label on the back of the unit. In the event that the beacon is not programmed for your country, the sales agent (if properly equipped) can reprogram the unit for the correct country - See more at: EPIRB FAQs | ACR ARTEX

It's getting tiring because you made factually wrong statements and continue to make them.

Firstly you claimed the mmsi is needed , that's wrong.

Secondly you just agreed with me , that if you buy the " wrong " country code Epirb. You have to get it reprogrammed so as to allow it to be registered.

The key feature of that reprogramming is to change the country code not put in the mmsi

Finally many Epirb companies will not support grey market reprogramming , a local ACR dealer refused to reprogram an US Epirb. For me. For example

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