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Old 22-04-2013, 01:20   #61
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Re: Drinking Water

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
It's true anywhere on the planet. Even Antarctica has birds pooping on it.
You would be laughed at if you suggested boiling the water from most of the UK's mountain streams.

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Originally Posted by Jimbo485 View Post
I find a lot of this pretty incredible. For many many thousands of years, humans were drinking water straight from streams without additional treatment. Some people died off and evolution got the rest of us used to it and our stomachs have been perfected to handle it ever since. If you have had a life wrapped in cotton wool and never been exposed to a natural environment, you have to decide if you want to toughen your body up again to the normal level of an evolved human being or continue to be a 1st world cotton wool baby.
Very much the case in most of Europe from what I have seen on my travels.

Remember we have about 2000 years of practice moving water about from them hills to town.

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Old 22-04-2013, 01:51   #62
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Re: Drinking Water

All you he-men are welcome to contemplate the maxim of "what does not kill me, makes me stronger", while "dribbling" into your Wilcox & Crittendon.

I, for one, live a normal life and am not bothered by the fact that there are bacteria everywhere. But I do take sensible precautions to reduce the risk of exposure to harmful bacteria, like washing my hands after being in public transport, taking my shoes off indoors, and drinking (and cooking with) clean water, without being obsessive about it. There's a lot of daylight between the life of Tarzan and the life of Howard Hughs.

Clean drinking water is especially important because of parasites. Amoebic dysentery, Schistosoma, Guinea Worm, anyone? No bloody thanks! These are truly ghastly diseases that you don't just "build up resistance" to. I doubt if anyone who has had or has seen such a disease would share your bravado. I'll filter my water, thank you very much. CDC - Parasites - Water

Actually it is quite remarkable how many diseases are carried by drinking water: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterborne_diseases

I have drunk water straight from streams at various times in my life, and didn't die from it, but it is always a certain risk no matter where you are.

On board and cruising in the first world, as I do now, Seagull filtered tapwater from a well maintained on-board water system seems to be ok to me. If I were cruising in the third world, I would definitely have a watermaker.
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Old 22-04-2013, 02:09   #63
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Re: Drinking Water

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Originally Posted by Jimbo485 View Post
I find a lot of this pretty incredible. For many many thousands of years, humans were drinking water straight from streams without additional treatment. Some people died off and evolution got the rest of us used to it and our stomachs have been perfected to handle it ever since.
For "many many thousands of years", human life expectancy was about 25 years, too. The development of municipal water systems and availability of clean water played a huge role, perhaps the most important factor of all, in increasing life expectancies to what we consider normal today.

It's no coincidence that in places without clean water, life expectancy continues at the levels of "thousands, and thousands" of years ago -- 31 years in Swaziland, for example. Your "iron stomach" will do nothing to protect you from Guinea Worm, or from Cholera, or from Hepatitis, for example.

"At any given time, about half the population in the developing world is suffering
from one or more of the six main diseases associated with water supply and
sanitation (1. DiarrheaŚcaused by a number of microbial and viral pathogens
in food and water; 2.
Ascaris, 3. Dracunculisis, 4. Hookworm, and 5. Schistosomiasis,
all by infestation with various worms leading to disability, morbidity
and sometimes death; and 6. TrachomaŚcaused by a bacterium, leading to
blindness). About 400 children below age 5 die per hour in the developing
world from waterborne diarrheal diseases (1).

"Improved longevity, reduced infant mortality, health, productivity, and material
well-being are generally recognized as fruits of development. The developing
country populations generally have poor ranking on these indices compared
to those of industrial countries. Availability of plentiful and safe water for domestic
use and adequate sanitation to dispose of waste have long been known
to be fundamental to the development process, with benefits, such as labor

productivity, spread across all sectors." [emphasis added]

http://energy.lbl.gov/ie/archive/uv/...nkingwater.pdf


Do you want to join that half of the population of the developing world which is sick all the time from unsanitary drinking water? Then just go right ahead and drink like a third world person, and hope your "iron stomach" will protect you like it does them. I, personally, don't like being sick, and therefore I will keep to my first-world "cotton wool" habits with regard to drinking water.
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Old 22-04-2013, 06:20   #64
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Re: Drinking Water

Filtering can be simple and inexpensive. There is little reason to not have some sort of filtration system, at least for drinking water. I don't see why filtering is even an issue.
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Old 22-04-2013, 06:39   #65
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Re: Drinking Water

i double filter my dock water when i fill tanks at a dock..i sncessary. still, her ein mexico, the water is not as good as should be to be potable from tap--it is not that.....despite adverts, marina water in mexico is not potable. is dirty and full of sediment. requires at least 2 filters. then boil it for coffee or soups and use for washing....
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Old 22-04-2013, 06:46   #66
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Re: Drinking Water

I drink spring water if there is nothing upstream. I have never gotten sick. I am more worried about chemicals humans have spread than bear poo.

The best source of water for me is catching rainfall. If I go too long without rain, I have a dehumidifier, solar still, and forward osmosis.
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Old 22-04-2013, 06:56   #67
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Re: Drinking Water

Wow! I'm amazed at the amount of hydrophobia on this thread. First, let's distinguish between bad water and water that tastes bad.

Most western countries have water that , if supplied from the community, is drinkable, without treatment (might taste bad however).

2nd and 3rd world countries do not.

We use a bit of chlorine and the filter if we are in doubt about the water. We've never done it, but in extreme cases, we would boil it before using.

I've traveled over most of the planet and the above procedures have kept me from getting sick. I also keep my water tank clean.

I agree with being attentive to the water quality, but not obsessive. Once you start down that road you end up as Howard Hughes.

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Old 22-04-2013, 07:00   #68
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Re: Drinking Water

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Originally Posted by boat_alexandra View Post
I drink spring water if there is nothing upstream. I have never gotten sick. I am more worried about chemicals humans have spread than bear poo.

The best source of water for me is catching rainfall. If I go too long without rain, I have a dehumidifier, solar still, and forward osmosis.
Bear poo often contains Giardia, among other harmful parasites. Giardia, often contracted from drinking water from streams, is pretty unpleasant. You might want to read this before concluding that bear poo is so harmless: gihealth.com - built for patient satisfaction
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Old 22-04-2013, 07:40   #69
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Re: Drinking Water

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Bear poo often contains Giardia, among other harmful parasites. Giardia, often contracted from drinking water from streams, is pretty unpleasant. You might want to read this before concluding that bear poo is so harmless: gihealth.com - built for patient satisfaction
It all comes down to critter volume, and the most dangerous critter for humans are fellow humans. So sure, be careful around wilderness sources of water, but I would be far more cautious around man-made sources of water that are delivered in high-population centres.

From the US Centres for Disease Control:

"Giardiasis is a global disease. It infects nearly 2% of adults and 6% to 8% of children in developed countries worldwide. Nearly 33% of people in developing countries have had giardiasis. In the United States, Giardia infection is the most common intestinal parasitic disease affecting humans."
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Old 22-04-2013, 07:52   #70
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Re: Drinking Water

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The dribblies = Montezuma's revenge (diarrhea), I guess. Waterborne diseases are not to be forgotten, not to mention excrement from animals and who knows what else in the water. Down the hatch at your own peril; I wouldn't do it, though. Mauritz
Gotcha. I should have googled it:

Urban Dictionary: dribblies

www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dribblies
The extreme case of gut wrenching diarrhea, the shards, the squirts, or the trots induced by the consumption of too much ...[bear poo, Chinese food, Habene'o peppe's, Taco Bell, Krispy Kreme donuts, bell peppers, 3rd world water...]

BTDT. So my thoughts about slowly acclimating my innards to the local water?

Newt, if you're reading, what's yer take on acclimation as a) a physician, and b) wilderness surv instructor?




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Old 22-04-2013, 08:49   #71
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Re: Drinking Water

I don't want to totally hijack the thread with advertising but you should check out the Model 1000 WaterFixer. It is 100% effective at removing any amount of bear poo and/or any other biological hazard. You can view the system here. Water Filters And Purifiers We have many thousands of systems from the Great Lakes to Russia to Mexican ports. We are also giving a Model 500 away next week to a lucky Cruisers Forum member. If you want to sign up for the giveaway check out the details here. April Giveaway: Waterfixer
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Old 22-04-2013, 20:21   #72
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Re: Drinking Water

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..................Very much the case in most of Europe from what I have seen on my travels.

Remember we have about 2000 years of practice moving water about from them hills to town.

Pete
2,000 years! That's all? Our water was moving from the hills to town eons before the towns were there,- and with no practice at all!

Of course you're right,- the practice of maintaining the water source and reservoirs is an important development and these are not skills that were lost to more recently developed areas. Some of these same skills need to be considered for those that store their drinking water for long periods of time on their vessels. We should all be aware of the original source of our water; the possibilities for contamination; the virulence of potential pathogens; and our own individual resistance.
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Old 22-04-2013, 20:26   #73
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Re: Drinking Water

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You would be laughed at if you suggested boiling the water from most of the UK's mountain streams.



Very much the case in most of Europe from what I have seen on my travels.

Remember we have about 2000 years of practice moving water about from them hills to town.

Pete

Pete, it really doesn't bother me if uninformed people laugh at me.

The farther you are from good medical help, the more careful one needs to be. All I can do is offer my viewpoint. I'm not going to cram it down anyone's throat, but things laughed off here as "the dribbles" can kill people from dehydration ... and, living on a sailboat, I can tell you it's no great joy to have such an ailment on a sailboat.

You do whatever you want. I'm careful about the water I drink but I don't refrigerate my Mayo. That's what the science says to do, and if some stranger I'll never meet laughs, so be it. Have a great evening.
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Old 22-04-2013, 20:28   #74
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Re: Drinking Water

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Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post
You would be laughed at if you suggested boiling the water from most of the UK's mountain streams.



Very much the case in most of Europe from what I have seen on my travels.

Remember we have about 2000 years of practice moving water about from them hills to town.

Pete

Actually, thousands of people die every day from unclean drinking water. While we were evolving, the organisms that attack us were also. This has nothing whatsoever to do with moving water from hills to town. The research has been done, and things like cryptosporidium have been found in what one would surely think were pristine water sources. If I'm out to sea away from medical help, I don't want to get that, and it's easy to avoid.

You do whatever you want.
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Old 23-04-2013, 02:38   #75
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Re: Drinking Water

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I don't want to totally hijack the thread with advertising but you should check out the Model 1000 WaterFixer. It is 100% effective at removing any amount of bear poo and/or any other biological hazard. You can view the system here. Water Filters And Purifiers We have many thousands of systems from the Great Lakes to Russia to Mexican ports. We are also giving a Model 500 away next week to a lucky Cruisers Forum member. If you want to sign up for the giveaway check out the details here. April Giveaway: Waterfixer
That looks like a useful device.

I do have one question, however, about the data on your web page. I am confused by the units used.

Your website says that your device produces "30,000 microwatt seconds of energy per square centimeter"

"Seconds" I guess takes account of the rate of flow past the lamp.

But per square centimeter? An average E Coli bacterium is about 4 x 1.3 micrometers, so would present an area of about 5.2 square micrometers. One square micrometer is 1 x 10 to the -8 square centimeters, so the dose our E Coli bacterium would be getting from your device would be only about 156,000 x 10 to the -8 microwatt seconds, so 1560 millionths of a microwatt, so some orders of magnitude less than the necessary dose according to your table.

Maybe there's some mistake there?
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