Do I Need A Life Raft

[barnakiel]

Yep. They did need one!

They call it a school of hard knocks ;-)

Cheers,
b.

[artisthos]

Tinker Traveller is the type of life-raft / tender we are looking for. Looking for an inflatable just like this with an attachable tent. I like the idea of a real working tender with engine and abilities.
Thank you for the great ideas.

[Bulawayo]

Not an issue if its survival time........you'll be glad of the kit. Mine was scoffed by rats!!!

Originally Posted by snort

I've got one of those Tinker Travellers and would use it on the big boat, but only if I were going way offshore.
It's not fun putting up the mast, seat, etc...on land, and I can imagine the PITA it would be doing that on the water.

[Bulawayo]

Absolutely 100% agree .......voice of experience and not theory. I love my OceanCraft and the mods we have done to make it even more versatile.

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Sorry, but my opinion is that a proper dinghy should be able to serve triple duty. To serve as a liferaft, provide shore to boat transportation in any weather and to serve as a tow boat if and when the mothership becomes disabled.

The pudgy looks like a very weak attempt at two of these abilities and a no show at being able to tow the mothership. Good luck on the pudgy in winds of 25-35 knots with choppy seas. Make sure you bring along a handheld waterproof VHF.

[powsmias]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

You seem to be saying that it doesn't matter if the liferaft or lifeboat flips over, because you can right it. On the contrary, getting spilled into the water when your raft flips is a very good way to get killed in big sea conditions, in a storm, at night, in cold water, etc.

The whole purpose of a life raft is to keep the crew out of the water. Resistance to capsize is a paramount quality.


Notice that I'm not saying that the Pudgy is worse than a normal raft, because I don't know. It looks like it might be much worse, but that's only because I'm guessing that the ballast pockets on normal rafts actually work.

Capsize is also why a normal inflatable dinghy is useless as a life raft in any kind of weather. Fine in a calm. But can you be sure that if your boat sinks, you'll have calm weather?

ran into this while looking at winter storage info on the pudgy and a good reply by pudgy in it, may lend to post.. https://www.morganscloud.com/2009/09/19/portland-pudgy/

[Liam Wald]

No, you probably don't need one while sitting at the computer.
And you may never ever need one as long as you live.
But if your boat sinks and the beach is beyond your swimming ability you will definitely need one.
I have one. I will always have one as long as I have a sailboat.
I hope I never get a chance to use it.

[kmacdonald]

I'll just get one when and if I need it.

[UNCIVILIZED]

I wish I had a $ fiver for every time this question came up

[meirriba]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

I wish I had a $ fiver for every time this question came up

This means that there is no easy definitive answer to the question.

We have a liferaft and a RIB on davits. I would use both in case of the vessel loss.

As a comments to some posts above:
1. It is possible to right back a liferaft that opens inverted. I have done that with a 12 pax unit in a survival training course. My dinghy, if overturned will be impossible to right.
2. Dinghy as substitute: if you want to use the dinghy, it should be ready for deployment instantly (where is the dinghy secured? is the dinghy engine attached? accessible?).
I was on a yacht that was flooded and sank within more or less 10 minutes. We have deployed a liferaft and spent some time (short - 4 hours) inside the liferaft in 3 m waves. No way we could deploy the dinghy for rescue, as the dinghy was secured upside down on the bow and its engine secured on the pushpit.
The raft felt steady, and it was warms and cosy inside for the short time we (6 persons in an 8 PAX unit) have been inside. No idea how it would be if we needed to spent some days together....

[undercutter]

Originally Posted by meirriba

This means that there is no easy definitive answer to the question.

Boat knocked down in severe seas, dark, fire breaks out or panic otherwise sets in and the life raft needs to be deployed.

Can you;

free the life raft from the tethered position on deck and throw it over the rail?

free the dinghy from the cabin top, install the engine or not and throw it over the rail?

upright an overturned life raft in even moderate seas.

board a life raft in heavy seas?

The answer to the first 3 questions is probably no! The last question is a crapshoot.

All life rafts should be mounted on the outside of the rail or lifelines so that once the straps are released the life raft will fall into the water by itself or with a slight push. Our 4 man liferaft is only 65kg but I doubt I could easily heft it off a cabin top into the water in an emergency. I know my wife couldn't handle it if I was indisposed. As well the life raft should be self righting as the same situation applies.

The Admiral never goes down with the ship and the proper liferaft will ensure that she can survive even if I do not.

Buy a Viking RescYou self righting 4 or 6 man and mount it on the outside of the life lines.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

I'll just get one when and if I need it.

As you are sinking?

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by jackdale

As you are sinking?

Well, amazon may have drones soon and maybe they'll have 15 min delivery. 😀


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[MBWhite]

Originally Posted by jackdale

As you are sinking?

Apologies to everyone, but your comment made me remember this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmOTpIVxji8

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by malbert73

Well, amazon may have drones soon and maybe they'll have 15 min delivery. 😀


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

That's what I'm hoping for.

[powsmias]

Originally Posted by malbert73

Well, amazon may have drones soon and maybe they'll have 15 min delivery. 😀


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

or get the uber app...

to address an earlier thread here, will copy and paste some of the builders comments:

With regard to deploying liferafts—unfortunately, there are many tragic stories of liferafts being deployed and not inflating. The Pudgy is already a boat; you don’t have to hope that it inflates. Another difficulty in deploying liferafts is that in severe storm conditions they have been known to become airborne and flip upside down.
The USCG did a test of liferafts in hurricane force winds (created using helicopters and a C130 airplane). They tested several large liferafts, and all of them, with the exception of the 25-person Givens buoy liferaft, were quickly and easily capsized, potentially trapping the occupants under the collapsing floor of the raft. Somewhere in cyberspace there is a video showing about eight liferafts in the test, and all but one of them flipping.

The Portland Pudgy’s middle seat is removable, and the flat floor is 6 feet two inches long, designed so that two people can comfortably stretch out to sleep. Unlike a liferaft, the Pudgy’s floor can be kept dry. Sitting and lying in salt water for prolonged periods can cause serious sores. Because of the double wall thickness and the foam under the floor, the floor is not cold as in many liferafts, and you can’t feel things like shark fins and fish bumping up against the floor.
All of the survival gear, including sailing rig, sea anchor, exposure canopy, oars, ditch bag, provisions, and fishing gear can stow inside the storage chamber of the double hull (with the exception of the rudder and leeboards, which stow under the stern seat). It has a dash-mounted, built-in compass.

The USCG rates it at 1255 pounds of buoyancy. (This means it took 1255 pounds to submerge it, in a test.) It doesn’t need to inflate and it can’t deflate or sink.

The passive liferaft seems to encourage people to passively trust that the raft will inflate and stay inflated, and that help will come, when unfortunately, too often this has proved not to be the case. The Portland Pudgy is a new concept that is actually related to a very old concept (after all, Captain Bligh and Shackleton used proactive lifeboats in their epic journeys). It challenges many of the assumptions we have grown accustomed to about liferafts. Liferafts have saved many lives, but tragically, many liferafts have failed, and sailors should do some hard thinking about what their options are in protecting themselves, their loved ones, and their crew.

imagine i'll be all alone out there a lot and gonna put my trust in this thing to save the day.. all the best you guys.. maybe a better mousetrap!!

entire article here: https://www.morganscloud.com/2009/09/19/portland-pudgy/