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Old 06-01-2017, 23:02   #166
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Re: Do I Need A Life Raft

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Originally Posted by RPZ View Post
Adelie,

Afterthought; if they are selling that many at 4k per unit that is 340k gross a year. They are not struggling at all even at that price.
The hulls are $2700. Canopy is another $2k, but it is unclear how many folks are purchasing those or any of the other extras.

Lets assume $4k average per hull with all the extras. ($340K)
Lets assume 33% of cost for manufacturing including material, equipment, 3rd party fitting but not facility or salaries ($113k)
Facility rent: $2k/mo ($24k)
Lets assume $400/hull shipping including all packing cost. ($34k)
Assume they exhibit at 4 boat shows per year. (Lets call that $20k). Each show will cost:
$2-4k exhibition Fees
$1K in transport fees (gotta drive to get at least one of the hulls there.)
$1k in hotel bills including 1 meal per day, 2 people.
$500 in food bills and misc personal expenses.
$500 in printing marketing material.
3 years ago they had 2 employees, let's assume that's still true and they are making $30k/yr each. ($60k)
Let's say they spend $1k/mo operating expenses: website, phones, heat, electricity, water/sewer/garbage. ($12k)

That $340k gross minus -$263K costs is $77k net before insurance.

I have no idea what insurance would be for such a product nor what after market customer service costs.

Would you and your wife be happy living on $60k per year doing sales constantly, managing employees and production, spending 3-4 weeks per year living in hotels while doing boat shows and dealing with unhappy customers regularly?

My father has owned his own businesses almost the entire time I have been alive. Consequently I have some idea of how businesses run.

I am impressed that they have lasted over 10yr. I made a lot of guesses at costs but I would be surprised if the owners were making more than $70k per years.
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Old 07-01-2017, 06:43   #167
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Re: Do I Need A Life Raft

I could pair down those costs considerably in Houston. Haven't shopped for one lately but not so long ago I could of rented a small warehouse for about $250 a month.

I wouldn't bother with boat shows; internet marketing reaches far and wide. For about 5k I know an SEO that will get you in the first page of google. Consistently.

Texas has a huge number if boat owners, there's a big market right here.

Yeah business is tough, over regulation doesn't help.
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Old 23-01-2019, 22:26   #168
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Re: Do I Need A Life Raft

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After spending a couple months in a life raft, Steve Callahan felt there must be a better way and developed the FRIB.

http://www.stevencallahan.net/images...signs/frib.pdf

http://images.nationalgeographic.com...24_990x742.jpg

Unfortunately, it seems like it may never go into production.
I sure wish it would. I'd buy one.
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Old 24-01-2019, 12:08   #169
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Re: Do I Need A Life Raft

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After spending a couple months in a life raft, Steve Callahan felt there must be a better way and developed the FRIB.

http://www.stevencallahan.net/images...signs/frib.pdf

http://images.nationalgeographic.com...24_990x742.jpg

Unfortunately, it seems like it may never go into production.

I think many sailors may think long term raft survival scenarios are unlikely given the prevalence of modern rescue communication devices like EPIRBs and sat phones.
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Old 24-01-2019, 12:13   #170
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Re: Do I Need A Life Raft

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I think many sailors may think long term raft survival scenarios are unlikely given the prevalence of modern rescue communication devices like EPIRBs and sat phones.


And there a lot of sailors who are surprised when their electronics don’t work.

I’m not saying the odds of that occurring are high, but they are not by any means infestimal.
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Old 24-01-2019, 13:26   #171
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Re: Do I Need A Life Raft

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I think many sailors may think long term raft survival scenarios are unlikely given the prevalence of modern rescue communication devices like EPIRBs and sat phones.
Wishful thinking has killed quite a few people.
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Old 24-01-2019, 14:04   #172
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Re: Do I Need A Life Raft

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I think many sailors may think long term raft survival scenarios are unlikely given the prevalence of modern rescue communication devices like EPIRBs and sat phones.
And modern examples shows this to be true. Calahans experience was 38 years ago.
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Old 24-01-2019, 17:55   #173
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Re: Do I Need A Life Raft

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And there a lot of sailors who are surprised when their electronics don’t work.

I’m not saying the odds of that occurring are high, but they are not by any means infestimal.

I wonder how many folks are surprised when their properly maintained inflatable liferaft doesn’t inflate?

I’m not saying the odds of that occurring are high, but they are not by any means infinitesimal.
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Old 25-01-2019, 03:09   #174
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Re: Do I Need A Life Raft

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Originally Posted by crazyoldboatguy View Post
I wonder how many folks are surprised when their properly maintained inflatable liferaft doesn’t inflate?

I’m not saying the odds of that occurring are high, but they are not by any means infinitesimal.

Actually the odds of that are SIGNIFICANT.


I am not aware of any single case of a crew that had to stay more than a week in a liferaft, in this century, when the crew had an EPIRB.


But every few years there is an incident where a life raft doesn't inflate.


It's really important to choose quality in the first place, and then keep them serviced. It is equally important to store them in an appropriate place where they can be easily launched in a distress situation, and not at the bottom of a locker somewhere.


I have TWO life rafts on my boat.


In reasonable weather and given enough time, I would take BOTH life raft and the dinghy, if I had to abandon, God forbid.
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Old 25-01-2019, 04:10   #175
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Re: Do I Need A Life Raft

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Actually the odds of that are SIGNIFICANT.


I am not aware of any single case of a crew that had to stay more than a week in a liferaft, in this century, when the crew had an EPIRB.


But every few years there is an incident where a life raft doesn't inflate.


It's really important to choose quality in the first place, and then keep them serviced. It is equally important to store them in an appropriate place where they can be easily launched in a distress situation, and not at the bottom of a locker somewhere.


I have TWO life rafts on my boat.


In reasonable weather and given enough time, I would take BOTH life raft and the dinghy, if I had to abandon, God forbid.
A raft can be inflated manually even in the water, and I'd suggest spending a day at sea in one before making a week seem trivial.
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Old 25-01-2019, 07:18   #176
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Re: Do I Need A Life Raft

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A raft can be inflated manually even in the water, and I'd suggest spending a day at sea in one before making a week seem trivial.

I wonder what it would be like trying to manually inflate a 4 man liferaft in 8 foot seas, in the middle of the night, all while trying to prevent your ditch bag from floating away.

Just sayin’
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Old 25-01-2019, 07:53   #177
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Re: Do I Need A Life Raft

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A raft can be inflated manually even in the water, and I'd suggest spending a day at sea in one before making a week seem trivial.

No one said a week or even a day in a life raft would be trivial! By all accounts, it is a horrendous experience. I have heard that on top of everything else (e.g. crowding), the motion is absolutely horrible, and everyone pukes, which in itself can kill you.



Not trivial, but - survivable. Separated from the ocean on a stable platform, and with shelter. That's the point.





As to manually inflating a raft -- I think you're dead if it doesn't inflate the way it is supposed to, at least in any kind of sea state. It will sink if it's in the water. The good news is that quality rafts, properly serviced, rarely fail to inflate.
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Old 25-01-2019, 08:00   #178
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Re: Do I Need A Life Raft

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Originally Posted by crazyoldboatguy View Post
I wonder what it would be like trying to manually inflate a 4 man liferaft in 8 foot seas, in the middle of the night, all while trying to prevent your ditch bag from floating away.

Just sayin’

Uninflated life rafts don't float. If it doesn't go off, it will sink. Perhaps you can haul it back on board to inflate it manually, but, in other than calm conditions, and a slow sinking (certainly no fire), I wouldn't bet on it.
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Old 25-01-2019, 10:37   #179
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Re: Do I Need A Life Raft

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Uninflated life rafts don't float. If it doesn't go off, it will sink. Perhaps you can haul it back on board to inflate it manually, but, in other than calm conditions, and a slow sinking (certainly no fire), I wouldn't bet on it.
You should put one in the water uninflated and try to sink it, I'll watch. As I've actually done this in a twelve to fifteen foot sea, wearing a survival suit and 40F water at night I can say it's quite doable, not fun but doable. If you put a moment of thought into it and perhaps watch a raft be repacked you'd realize that they never get all of the air out of the tubes and as there's not much non-buoyant weight in one they float quite well uninflated. All that's required is to climb in, find and attach the air pump and start pumping, it doesn't even take all that long. I've been running commercial boats for years and have instructed at sea survival courses and some of the myths and wishful thinking I see here could easily be fatal. By the way that's me in my avatar with my hand on the gallows of the stern trawler Endurance in the fall of 1983 so I've seem a little of what I'm referring to.
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Old 25-01-2019, 10:48   #180
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Re: Do I Need A Life Raft

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You should put one in the water uninflated and try to sink it, I'll watch. As I've actually done this in a twelve to fifteen foot sea, wearing a survival suit and 40F water at night I can say it's quite doable, not fun but doable. If you put a moment of thought into it and perhaps watch a raft be repacked you'd realize that they never get all of the air out of the tubes and as there's not much non-buoyant weight in one they float quite well uninflated. All that's required is to climb in, find and attach the air pump and start pumping, it doesn't even take all that long. I've been running commercial boats for years and have instructed at sea survival courses and some of the myths and wishful thinking I see here could easily be fatal.
Underinflated is different from uninflated. Without air there is no buoyancy, it is just a 100 + lb weight.
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