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Old 17-06-2012, 16:05   #91
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Re: Disqualifying crew based on medical

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Originally Posted by casual View Post
Seen too many stupid thing's happen,due to Alochol,Pot.I,have no place for it,calm sea's or any sea's.Boat's can have problem's in calm as well as rough sea's.Wanna deal with a overheating engin after a few libation's?

I'm OK with moderate drinking once we're done moving for the day, but not while the boat's underway.
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Old 17-06-2012, 16:08   #92
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Re: Disqualifying crew based on medical

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Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
I don't really consider any medical condition to be a complete bar from sailing, though being impossible to be around isn't medical.

For long distance racing and sailing, I ask for any 1) any medical conditions (I decide what is relavent) 2) any medication requirements 3) a HIPPA waiver so I can speak with their doctor 4) a minimum of drugs equal to the trips duration plus 7 days, 30 if they are life sustaining (insulin for instance).

I tend to call the persons doctor for specific advice, and warning signals, and to get the doctors thought on the persons reaction to off shore sailing, and to deal with their specific concerns.

It is also a very good idea to speak with your doctor and get a prescription for a list of potentially needed prescriptions to carry on board. Everything from antibiotics, antinausa pills (and suppositories), epinephrine, to high strength narcotic pain killers (and the stool softeners that go with them).

On the subject of weed. I am an attorney, and have been unable to find a single case where a boat was seized for a small amount of marijuana (less than an ounce). But it certainly could happen. That being said, I have seen people so seasick that smoking weed was the only thing that allowed them to control their seasickness long enough to keep down more traditional medications.
However I refuse to allow anyone to smoke or drink recreationally while underway. Unless the conditions are so mild that there is no fear of failing overboard (glassy calm waiting for wind) in which case a beer or two a day ration may be broken out at the skippers discretion.


I would not grant you #3. I have no idea of your medical information and for all I know you would not completely understand what my doctor was saying.
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Old 17-06-2012, 16:10   #93
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Re: Disqualifying crew based on medical

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Originally Posted by foolishsailor View Post
Much to my dismay - this is the rule I have also come to. And i would have to be honest about liking my booze - especially that time between the sun just dropping below the horizon and just after the sun dropped below the horizon. I wouldnt be shy to share a joint if offered in a place where i woudnt be tossed in jail for it...

...I have little ones, as i am sure everyone is sick of hearing, and it changes the perspective a bit. No booze or anything else on passage and even at anchor if it seem dodgy.

As far as pot for a medical condition....

...any drug that is recognized as a class one/class a/ class a1 (name your continent) would immedietly disqualify a crew member. I dont care how minor the illness.

We transport a full paramedic kit of drugs - inclulding controlled substances and it hasnt been a problem mainly because we willingly surrender them at customs or put them in a locked box that we offer to have a tag placed on.

Never been a problem. But as we have been boarded in Trinidad for example and if they had found drugs or firearms not declared - or in the states god forbid...

In this case it is les the illness and individual as much as it is the bureaucracy (jaaazus, had to google the spelling on that one...) surrounding their medication that is an issue...

I would not do that.

Just because it's Class 1 doesn't mean it can't be safely taken.
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Old 17-06-2012, 16:10   #94
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Re: Disqualifying crew based on medical

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Well that solves the problem of seasickness... Now how do you deal with a stoned crew?

They'd be kicked off my boat at the earliest opportunity along with whatever got them stoned.
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Old 17-06-2012, 16:17   #95
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Re: Disqualifying crew based on medical

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
I would not grant you #3. I have no idea of your medical information and for all I know you would not completely understand what my doctor was saying.
I highly doubt I would understand what a doctor said if they gave me medical jargon either. But what I want to know is

1) the person severity of condition
2) warning symptoms
3) potential triggers
4) therapy to apply in the case of an attack
5) the doctors thoughts on sutability for the cruise
6) any special concerns for the medication (refrigeration, kept out of sun, ect)

I have had this conversation on speaker phone with the person there if they were concerned about disclosure. But I have had too many people that take cavalier attitudes about their conditions, and because the normal environment compensates it isn't a problem, but offshore it might not.
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Old 17-06-2012, 16:35   #96
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Re: Disqualifying crew based on medical

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Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
I highly doubt I would understand what a doctor said if they gave me medical jargon either. But what I want to know is

1) the person severity of condition
2) warning symptoms
3) potential triggers
4) therapy to apply in the case of an attack
5) the doctors thoughts on sutability for the cruise
6) any special concerns for the medication (refrigeration, kept out of sun, ect)

I have had this conversation on speaker phone with the person there if they were concerned about disclosure. But I have had too many people that take cavalier attitudes about their conditions, and because the normal environment compensates it isn't a problem, but offshore it might not.

I can tell you all of that. I think if you sail with the person on a short sail first you can spot a cavalier attitude.

So let me tell you what the deal is with me. I have VERY mild cerebral palsy. It affects my legs only. I've lived with them for 66 years, frequently pushing the envelope. I know *exactly* what I can and cannot do. I know this in much more detail than my doctor does, because this condition does not require any kind of medical supervision.

But you as skipper should know about it -- and know that it does not hamper my ability to crew -- to your satisfaction. All you would have to do is sail with me. Believe me, I also know whether any medication I take needs to be refrigerated or not. I'm smart. I can't imagine *any* doctor saying that any person could sail with a guarantee of no problems. I can't imagine any person with diabetes not being able to tell you the signs of too much or too little insulin. I can't imagine them not knowing how their medication needs to be stored.

You need to know how I stay on the boat without falling in. The answer is rock-climbing techniques. Three parts secure, one part moving. It's the standard "one hand for yourself and one for the boat." I take it very seriously.

I also have very significant upper body strength. I would be *more* useful on your boat than most women because my arms are so strong. I can do things on a sailboat that most women can't. You would see that just from the muscle definition in my arms. My doctor doesn't know how good I am at hauling up an anchor, or raising a mainsail, or winching in a headsail. But you could see this for yourself in one afternoon sail.

I know my assets and limits far better than my doctor, who has never sailed, does.
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Old 17-06-2012, 16:38   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakuflames

I would not do that.

Just because it's Class 1 doesn't mean it can't be safely taken.
Not worried about it being safe to take, worried about a port of entry not recognising the drug as medication. A schedule one generally means "no medical use" and just cause pot is medicinal in the states does not mean it will be greeted the same on your entrance to Mexico...
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Old 17-06-2012, 16:44   #98
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Re: Disqualifying crew based on medical

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Originally Posted by foolishsailor View Post
Not worried about it being safe to take, worried about a port of entry not recognising the drug as medication. A schedule one generally means "no medical use" and just cause pot is medicinal in the states does not mean it will be greeted the same on your entrance to Mexico...

If you're talking about international, that's different. Nevertheless, I would choose who I was sailing with for that distance very carefully and would just research the laws. People travel internationally with prescriptions, including Class I medications, all the time. Just follow the rules.
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Old 17-06-2012, 16:55   #99
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Re: Disqualifying crew based on medical

raku--i do not do short trips--shortest is a 2-3 day event here on pacific side of mexico. i DO, however, remain in port for 2-3 weeks while i try to determine the value of my wannabe crew. seems to work out ok, so far. then i check reaction to sailing 100 miles offshore. but first they must have passed the can you follow simple instructions tests.

i am able to perform a history and physical via interrogation well in few minutes. i do not need a full physical. i am able to see the nystagmus, i am able to smell the chemicals ingested--is all good. the folks i care about keeping off my boat include many who have the attitude they are too smart or too elevated--i do not need that psychosis on my boat waiting to explode while out on oceanic passage, whether offshore or close in.... the follow simple instructions test is do able while awaiting to see the whites of the potential crew's eyes....


and i will allow NO hypnotics, NO triplicate required meds on my ketch. antipsychosis drugs also may remain off boat--along with the person taking them. yes i CAN limit who is able to sail upon my boat.
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Old 17-06-2012, 17:08   #100
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Re: Disqualifying crew based on medical

BTW- to clear things up. You can not get a medical Rx for schedule 1 drugs. At least not in the states that I practice in. Schedule 2 are the strong opiods, and it goes through schedule 4 I think. The DEA lets most doctors prescribe 2 and higher. Some researchers can get their hands on schedule 1, but they are not for the general public.
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Old 17-06-2012, 17:14   #101
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Re: Disqualifying crew based on medical

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Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
raku--i do not do short trips--shortest is a 2-3 day event here on pacific side of mexico. i DO, however, remain in port for 2-3 weeks while i try to determine the value of my wannabe crew. seems to work out ok, so far. then i check reaction to sailing 100 miles offshore. but first they must have passed the can you follow simple instructions tests.

i am able to perform a history and physical via interrogation well in few minutes. i do not need a full physical. i am able to see the nystagmus, i am able to smell the chemicals ingested--is all good. the folks i care about keeping off my boat include many who have the attitude they are too smart or too elevated--i do not need that psychosis on my boat waiting to explode while out on oceanic passage, whether offshore or close in.... the follow simple instructions test is do able while awaiting to see the whites of the potential crew's eyes....


and i will allow NO hypnotics, NO triplicate required meds on my ketch. antipsychosis drugs also may remain off boat--along with the person taking them. yes i CAN limit who is able to sail upon my boat.

Sure, but you're a nurse, aren't you? You have specialized training and skills.

Of course you can limit who sails on your boat. I'm speaking only for myself, but I would do a short sail with someone before taking them on a longer one. Even that failed me once because I sailed on his boat instead of him sailing on mine, so I didn't find out until we were en route that he refused to learn about the electronics and IMAGINED "channels" anywhere he hadn't managed to run aground on his boat. I don't get that part because he seemed to know how to use a chart.

Also, on his boat I had no clue that he would refuse to follow directions from a ... (gasp!) woman. So now it isn't enough that I sail with the person. It has to be on my boat.

By doing short sails I now have a pool of congenial sailors who are either good sailors on their own or who follow directions exceptionally well to sail with (I'll gladly work with a beginner who knows his or her limits -- wasn't that long ago that those words would have described me).
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Old 17-06-2012, 17:15   #102
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Re: Disqualifying crew based on medical

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BTW- to clear things up. You can not get a medical Rx for schedule 1 drugs. At least not in the states that I practice in. Schedule 2 are the strong opiods, and it goes through schedule 4 I think. The DEA lets most doctors prescribe 2 and higher. Some researchers can get their hands on schedule 1, but they are not for the general public.

You're right. Thanks for the clarification.
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Old 17-06-2012, 17:52   #103
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Re: Disqualifying crew based on medical

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Originally Posted by foolishsailor View Post
Not worried about it being safe to take, worried about a port of entry not recognising the drug as medication. A schedule one generally means "no medical use" and just cause pot is medicinal in the states does not mean it will be greeted the same on your entrance to Mexico...

Not to mention that the Coast Guard is a Federal agency and does not care about your local state laws. Just look at all the dispensary raids going down right now, DEA is federal too.
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Old 17-06-2012, 17:56   #104
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Re: Disqualifying crew based on medical

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Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
BTW- to clear things up. You can not get a medical Rx for schedule 1 drugs. At least not in the states that I practice in. Schedule 2 are the strong opiods, and it goes through schedule 4 I think. The DEA lets most doctors prescribe 2 and higher. Some researchers can get their hands on schedule 1, but they are not for the general public.

Wrong, pot is a schedule 1 substance (no medical use), along with LSD, methamphetamine, and a few other nasty drugs. People have been trying to get it removed from schedule 1 forever, as heroin is schedule 2, which is ridiculous. And yet, in a number of states you can get a prescription for this schedule 1 substance.

Removal of cannabis from Schedule I of the Controlled Substances Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 17-06-2012, 18:01   #105
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Re: Disqualifying crew based on medical

Raku,

I have sailed with people of any number of handicaps, from minor ones like yours to a gentleman that lost both legs. Since I am not a doctor or nurse I need to feel confident I understand my crews limitations, and often the person themselves is not the best source of that information.

I can accept that you have learned to move around a boat well, and that would be proven with a short day sail before we got going. But the gentleman who had lost both legs obviously couldn't though he was fabulous crew. But as part of confirming in my mind that he was ok to sail offshore I needed to feel comfortable that the amputation was one that didn't result in any other potentially dangerious conditions, a potential crew member who wants to check a long distance sail off his bucket list may not be completely honest. Which is why I wanted to ask his doctor. The doc didn't say there weren't going to be ay problems, but did let me know that there weren't any specific (other than the obvious) issues to watch out for.

On the other hand I have a regular crew who is anemic, and before we went off shore the first time I had his doc give me a five minute run down of what to look out for, potential problems, ect.


Personally I am pretty permissive. Unless your condition will risk your life, or the safety of the boat, I don't mind what's wrong with you, as long as we get along. I may however limit or assign duties based upon physical limitations, and ensure that those duties are agreed to before hand. The same as I assign duties to people based upon experience and my belief of their decision making capability.

Just like I have assigned all cooking duties to a crew member who had no sailing experience (he won most valuable crew member on that race, as selected by my crew), the amputee was restricted to the cockpit, and was responsible for always keeping the place neat and clean, and trimming the main. I wouldn't let him on the bow, but he understood my reasoning, and agreed with the limitations I set.

Sailing to me is an inclusive sport, but it can also be one that puts people's lives in danger. As a skipper I spent tons of time checking my boat, rely on experts to help select gear, and if someone's medical condition warrants I am going to check with a doctor to learn about their condition. Not because I care to pry, but because I need to know if I am putting someone's life in danger needlessly. Who better to get that information from than their treating physician.
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