disposing of OOD flares

[hellosailor]

Nevis-
Surprised to hear of your mishap, hope you heal OK.
In the US, incidents like that, even with expired flares, are tracked by our Consumer Product Safety Commission. (And possibly the USCG.) When a potentially explosive product malfunctions and causes harm, sometimes it is just a fluke. Other times, that indicated a greater danger from manufacturing defects or design flaws, and a recall is issued on the product.

As just happened with the Kidde fire extinguishers, 16.7 million units to be recalled, I believe. Most of them well past all normal "recommended" replacement date.

Is the brand something local? Or one that others of us might encounter?

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

...In the US, incidents like that, even with expired flares, are tracked ... Is the brand something local? Or one that others of us might encounter?

Good point.
Date of manufacture: 7/93
Validity: 4 years
Produced by: S N I s.r.l. - Roccarainola (NA)
Orange colour tube with "SOLAS" in large white lettering, red top cap, green bottom cap.
Clearly Italian manufacture (all description/instructions in Italian, with English subtitles).

Both flares of this particular type malfunctioned: two from two - first one did not ignite, second one did all the damage. (So correction: two in total failed to fire plus one exploded = 3 misfires from 8.)

(Thanks all for concerns expressed but damage was not that serious - just peeled like a knife so was put back in place easily enough, no tendon damage.)

[hellosailor]

Pardon the odd humor (there's a rumor of a Norseman way up the family tree) but are you sure you weren't trying out for a role in Monty Python? You know, The Holy Hand Grenade?

Given that they are really international...maybe skip the NZ authorities but drop a courtesy note to the manufacturer, and a somewhat blunter one to SOLAS. I'm pretty sure that SOLAS flares are not supposed to bite the owner.

Memo: Add welding gloves to the pyro box. (Sheesh.)

Another good reason that I'll stick to my ugly non-traditional Kevlar knit sailing gloves!

[StuM]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

I'm pretty sure that SOLAS flares are not supposed to bite the owner.

Not even after they've been deteriorating for 24 years?

There's a reason why they have a 4 year expiry!

[toddster8]

I suspect the issue is more analogous to the Takata airbags - when they start to absorb moisture, the propellant can get "lumpy" and not burn evenly, but partially explode instead. Just like the 12 ga. flares I mentioned above that detonated inside the pistol.

[hellosailor]

Fail after 24 years, yes. Explode in one's hand...I don't think so, Stu. Think about gun ammunition. I've seen hundred year old rifle cartridges fire, or not. Never just blew up in a rude manor. And sometime back in the 80's (?) some folks excavated a Revolutionary War cannonball from some mudbank (Delmarva area? Potomac?) and took it away to a disposal site. They put in a fresh new fuse and it blew up--just as it was intended to.

Ordance is expected to age, sure, but there's a flaw (probably in the package design or assembly) when it blows up in that dramatic fashion. That should be simple enough to engineer around.

Or, I suppose, a truly first class maker would send around a team of elderly ladies with teapots and pastries, to entertain you and help you gather up all the pyros so they could take away the expired ones for safe disposal, and give you nice fresh new ones.

I don't recall ever seeing a warning ON a pyro that it had to be destroyed in a timely manner, or else it might explode in your hand. Have you?

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

... sure you weren't trying out for a role in Monty Python? You know, The Holy Hand Grenade?...

Reminds me, I knew a fisherman long time back, nickname 'Captain Hook'; he found a grenade washed up on a beach ... you've guessed the rest.
But it gets better - that beach was on an uninhabited island (Treshnish Isles?) 10 miles out in the Atlantic off the Scottish outer isles. His boat was anchored in the bay (heavy fisherman anchor, no windlass), his engine was hand-crank, an open boat (undecked), few radios around back then (none in open boats). Somehow he got the anchor up and started the engine.

Fishermen on shore watched him come in, his boat heading straight for the shore. They found him unconscious, slumped over the tiller. He survived - some folks just don't know when to die.
----------
No way could you operate these flares with gloves on. Not sure if welding gloves even have fingers but the ring-pull is small and extremely fiddly to retrieve. Maybe modern flares are easier to fire, better designed.

One other thing I noted - it's impossible to operate the different types without a bright torch to help find/extract the safety pin and/or locate those secured-away ring-pulls or levers, even if you had the presence of mind to read the tiny written instructions beforehand.

[Dr. Strangelove]

I had some old Smith and Wesson pen type flares from the early 1970's that I bought at a flea market years ago. I shot a few off one evening around 2005 (so - 35ish +or- years old), they worked well, or at least as they were supposed to work. On a calm night, possibly a mile visibility for the few seconds they lasted. During any real heavy weather, you'd likely have to shoot it into the open door of the rescue copper for them to notice it.

But they worked, even almost 40yrs after their date of manufacture.

[NevisDog]

Correction to that last post: I remember now, he ditched the anchor (wasn't dumb enough to try to retrieve it, as I would likely have done).

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

I tried searching for an answer but failed: what's to be done with a stack of very outdated flares (some from as far back as 1980s)?

Flares that old (30+ years) are a definite danger of having a fiery melt-off in you hand and face

Just not worth the risk.....Hand them over to the local fire department for dosposal

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

I may as well pass on this information

8th firing exploded backwards (well, both directions equally actually). Because it was a ring-pull type (not one of the safer lever type) firing mechanism, my right hand bore the full brunt, lifting the flesh off my middle finger down to the bone then hitting me full in the stomach like a kick from a mule.

So sorry to just read that.....wish my warning had got to you earlier.

Should be a wake up to all those who think it is worth the risk..... If well packaged, still sealed and stored well, then 5 years past expiry is my comfort level with backups
AND THEY DO NOT MAKE SUITABLE GIFTS

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

...Just not worth the risk.....Hand them over to the local fire department for dosposal

Sure - but I'm very glad of the learning experience (could have done without the explosion but hey...) - I'd hate to be climbing into a liferaft never having seen a flare fired.

The remainder of 'ridiculously OODs' are headed to the nearest police station here, soon as I can find the time - not many left now though. Darn, replacements are NZ$100 each, and they last 4 years!

[BigBoater917]

I would suggest donating them to a local Power Squadron or USCG Aux to practice and do demos with. I have been out on the 4th of July and had a boat in distress using flares. They acted differently than someone firing them off for "shiggles" so I was able to notify the Coasties.

[Inanna]

As far as I know, both in Spain and Argentina it is illegal to carry OOD flares. The fine in Spain is 1500€. I don't know if it is applicable to non Spanish flagged boats, but I would check before keeping the old ones. It is considered "transport of hazardous materials" What can I say

[hsi88]

Can't speak for other countries, but in the US the Sirius SOS signal light is now legal. But I will NOT discard OOD flares because if I'm in peril, I want all the signaling capability I can muster. I only use the handheld type flares, but fired off some that I had from my first boat that came from the mid-80's. They worked fine. They had been kept in plastic bags kept in my garage. I have plenty of OOD flares. I also have other personal beacons on board as well. So my days of handing over good money to Orion has stopped pretty much forever. IMO, saying flares expire in less than 4 years is pretty much a scam by the flare companies. Don't think they have evidence to back that up. If you don't mind buying them, buy them. I now have an alternative.