Dangers at Sea, Dangers on Land

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

It isn't that there are no dangers at sea, or on land. It is our perceptions and valuations of the dangers that differs.

Perceptions matter. In a famous experiment a Dutch town removed all road signs, markings, traffic lights, pedestrian crossings, and even most sidewalks and bike paths.
The result was significant reduction in traffic fatalities. That's because everyone perceived the situation as more dangerous, and thus paid more attention to their surroundings. As a result everybody ended up safer...

On a sailboat we are constantly interacting with our surroundings. At least, to me that is the essence of sailing. I think that sailing teaches a lot about being aware of your surroundings, and the risks and opportunities it presents (just like many other outdoors activities). I think that making your children part of that is doing them a huge favour, even at a very young age.

And I think that people tend to worry to much about their kids nowadays. A child is probably less likely to suddenly need the kind of medical attention that requires immediate hospitalisation than an adult.
Kids don't often get strokes or heart attacks...

[Pelagic]

Good point KVB...I believe the very dynamics of sea life makes you more aware and inherently safer, whether on land or sea

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by K_V_B

On a sailboat we are constantly interacting with our surroundings. At least, to me that is the essence of sailing. I think that sailing teaches a lot about being aware of your surroundings, and the risks and opportunities it presents (just like many other outdoors activities).

Yes, it's the increased challenges and danger that makes it safer. That's the ticket!

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

The reality is that very few people on this earth can really properly assess personal risk. There are so many bias's tattooed in our minds that most of the thoughts pertaining to risk are no where near reality.

This is a pet peeve of mine Robert. My sense is that most of us who live in wealthy urban environments are increasingly poor at rational risk assessment on a whole range of things. From violence, crime and healthcare, to the physical dangers posed by activities like driving, sitting all day, and cruising, most of us can no longer assess the real risks involved in various activities.

There are lots of reasons for this. For one, most of us grow up in a very controlled environment (urban centres) where the weather is tamed, the flow of cars and people are controlled, and emergency services are a 911 away. We also mostly see the broader world through a screen that magnifies low-risk events (violence, disaster, stupidity) and fosters a sense of fear of the unknown.

I think K_V_B is right in a sense. By being fully responsible for our actions we become better acquainted with actual risk, and take rational steps to mitigate it. So it is cruising on a boat outside the confines of the urban bubble wrap. By actually living with reality, we learn and adapt to manage dangerous activities. So it was in the Dutch town, and so it is with most other people when we are forced to think for ourselves.

[boatman61]

Lets face it.. dangers on sailboats boil down to peoples preconceptions and backgrounds..
95% of folk in this forum likely wear a life jacket all the time on a boat.. won't leave the cockpit without clipping on.. 50% likely even clip on in the cockpit..
As for operating anchors, windlass's, winches etc.. if one is used to manual work no problem.. if a keyboards more your forte.. unfamiliarity creates uncertainty therefore = dangerous
I do not use life jackets or harnesses.. ever.. no matter how bad the weather.. I anchor bare foot.. and by hand if the boat is under 35ft.. going up a mast is a laugh.. and I stand up driving my dinghy.
Danger is like Porn... each person has a different perception..

PS: Confidence in ones own physical capabilities plays a large part as well

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Lets face it.. dangers on sailboats boil down to peoples preconceptions and backgrounds..
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3]95% of folk in this forum likely wear a life jacket all the time on a boat..

I bet 95% of your preconceptions are wrong....

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

We also mostly see the broader world through a screen that magnifies low-risk events (violence, disaster, stupidity) and fosters a sense of fear of the unknown.

I heard an interview a few months back with an author who was discussing modern day journalism. His assertion was that our news consists of a few stories that get picked up and amplified by the media, which tends to distort their importance. So when someone gets bitten by a shark, or there is a terrorist incident, it becomes national news, and this increases our perception of it -- distorting the risk relative to more mundane events that are less sensational, but more commonplace.

So our press isn't quite as free as we think, since most of our news outlets use the same feeds.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

I bet 95% of your preconceptions are wrong....

Yeah...??
Prove it...

[Mr B]

Most people these days are wrapped up firmly in cotton wool.

I am called a crazy old Coot because I live to enjoy my life, I do know the risks I am taking, Its all calculated, I am prepared for most, I look to the worst case, any thing below that is a Bonus,

Everyday Mundane Dull things I do for me, Terrorize and scare the crap out of most people I talk to,

Oh Thats so dangerous, I could never do that, Thats because they never tried, Or too lazy to get off their Butts and have a go,

Or some one told them it is Dangerous,

I taught a woman to ride a motor bike when she was 61, She had never been on a Motor bike before,
She got her licence and bought her own bikes, Ended up on a 750 CC Kwaka, At 64, She rode quite well,

That Freaked so many people out it wasnt funny, YOUR GOING TO DIE, Temporary Citizen, Good Grief, Give me a break, Get a life,

One thing a lot of people seem to miss is,
You cant base other peoples experience on your own, Or lack off,

Unless you have actually done it, You dont have a clue, Reading it on the internet is not doing it,

Safety in anything, Is how you perceive it to be, If you think its dangerous, dont do it, It is your choice,

Some things I wont do, Bungee Jumping, throwing myself out of a safe airplane,
Unless I have to, I wont swim in the Ocean either,, I consider that Dangerous to me,

PS, I am very Capable, In all I do,

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

I heard an interview a few months back with an author who was discussing modern day journalism. His assertion was that our news consists of a few stories that get picked up and amplified by the media, which tends to distort their importance. So when someone gets bitten by a shark, or there is a terrorist incident, it becomes national news, and this increases our perception of it -- distorting the risk relative to more mundane events that are less sensational, but more commonplace.

So our press isn't quite as free as we think, since most of our news outlets use the same feeds.

Agreed. And while it was ever-thus, the problem has become progressively magnified with the huge increase in media ownership concentration, shrunken attention spans, AND the insanity of 24-hour "news". Most of what passes for journalism these days is thinly-veiled advertising and corporate/political parroting, all delivered in an emotional and distracting pabulum of fear and kittens.

[robert sailor]

Spot on Mike, news is no longer the news as it once was its a low form of entertainment dumbed down for the masses.

[Andrew B.]

Humans supposedly are born with just two fears. Fear of falling, and fear of loud noises.
All other fears are learned. Some quite beneficial to be sure, many others not.

I have coined this phrase. Sell fear, it's easy, and all to often no proof of it is required !

Very little if any factual data that water sailing">blue water sailing with children is any
more dangerous than many other modern day activities, yet here we are
debating, and discussing it because of someones perception that it might be
dangerous.
Quite amazing what bait I will rise for when bored.

Want to dance...

[captain58sailin]

I don't remember when I heard it, but on some news program, they said murders were down like 50%, but reporting on murders was up 100%. Now I don't know how you would quantify that, but it seems reasonable. More sensationalized the better. Lately I have been running across news stories on the internet that were totally inaccurate and were not corrected until a long time after the story had broke. So much for fact checking before you publish.
Like boatman, I have solo commercial fished, sailed for years, have not worn a life jacket ever. I have gone over the side once unintentionally. My greatest concern was the embarrassment of falling off my boat. After awhile I started worrying about hypothermia, but by then I was so cold, I didn't care.

[Andrew B.]

Originally Posted by captain58sailin

I don't remember when I heard it, but on some news program, they said murders were down like 50%, but reporting on murders was up 100%. Now I don't know how you would quantify that, but it seems reasonable. More sensationalized the better. Lately I have been running across news stories on the internet that were totally inaccurate and were not corrected until a long time after the story had broke. So much for fact checking before you publish.
Like boatman, I have solo commercial fished, sailed for years, have not worn a life jacket ever. I have gone over the side once unintentionally. My greatest concern was the embarrassment of falling off my boat. After awhile I started worrying about hypothermia, but by then I was so cold, I didn't care.

I had much the same feeling during my divorce many, many years back.
I told my lawyer about half way through to show mercy, and either shoot
me, or give her whatever she wanted Just get it over.

Damn neared died from hypothermia while canoeing some years back.
It really sneaks up on you !

[captain58sailin]

I hear you. When I go in deliberately to clear my prop of net or fish bags, I am aware of the different stages and use it, because my discomfort level goes down as the hypothermia level goes up, and I can work longer underwater when that kicks in, however you need to keep it in mind that there is a clock ticking and if you work too long you don't recover. When I went over the side accidently, I was still hanging off the back of my boat with a boat hook, and I was just stubborn enough to hang on until the boat which was in gear, ran into another boat so I could crawl out. I could have swam to the bank, but I wasn't going to let my horse get away damn it!