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Old 14-11-2011, 06:30   #31
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Re: Crew Wants to Abandon Ship, but Skipper Doesn't . . .

Call in a medical emergency? have the rescue crew to take them directly to the psych ward
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Old 14-11-2011, 06:42   #32
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Re: Crew Wants to Abandon Ship, but Skipper Doesn't . . .

[QUOTE=Captain Bill;817730]I would think that this is pretty clearly covered under admiralty law. I believe that "Admiralty Law" was established to regulate war ships and vessels sailing for commerce and would not apply to people out pleasure cruising.

If the crew usurps the captain's authority by calling for a rescue by radio or setting off the epirb or abandoning ship it's pretty clearly mutiny. Mutiny even on a private vessel is punishable by 10 years in prison in the US. Maybe people who do this should be prosecuted. I have never actually heard of anyone being prosecuted for mutiny as a result of this kind of action, but maybe they should.[/QUOTE}

I am ammused by boat owners that once they have people onboard think nothing of barking orders and adopting the attitude of "I am the capatain and it's my way or the highway". Pretty sure that unless so called "Crew" is being paid for their time the courts would view the as "Guests" or at the least "Passengers" and take the view that the "Owner" is reponsible for their safe passage. There are two sides to every story, so far here we have only heard one side.
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Old 14-11-2011, 06:50   #33
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pirate Re: Crew Wants to Abandon Ship, but Skipper Doesn't . . .

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Originally Posted by callmecrazy View Post
Call in a medical emergency? have the rescue crew to take them directly to the psych ward
Abject fear and severe sea sickness are both afflictions that can lead to loss of life... so a 'Pan Pan Medico' is a valid call..
Last year I did a 'Pan Pan' in the entrance to the Straits at the Trafalgar end...
the boat was holed and taking water in heavy wind and sea's...
explained sitution to Tarifa Radio..
and the fact pumps had failed/broken and we had 3ft of water in each hull....
also told them that I did not want to abandon ship,
I wanted to make Barbate...
but would appreciate them standing by to remove my crew if nessecary...
We made it in with them as escort...
mind... this was only 10miles offshore...
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Old 14-11-2011, 06:59   #34
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Re: Crew Wants to Abandon Ship, but Skipper Doesn't . . .

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Last year I did a 'Pan Pan' in the entrance to the Straits at the Trafalgar end...
A real sailor would have issued a "Securite" call instead........."risk of encountering floating debris"
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Old 14-11-2011, 07:00   #35
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Re: Crew Wants to Abandon Ship, but Skipper Doesn't . . .

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"Don't stop, til you get enough------"
Enough? ain't no fun in stopping there
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Old 14-11-2011, 07:01   #36
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Re: Crew Wants to Abandon Ship, but Skipper Doesn't . . .

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There are two sides to every story, so far here we have only heard one side.
Errrr.....there are no "sides" to this - I am just making sh#t up as I go along
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Old 14-11-2011, 07:14   #37
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pirate Re: Crew Wants to Abandon Ship, but Skipper Doesn't . . .

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A real sailor would have issued a "Securite" call instead........."risk of encountering floating debris"
Naahhhh..... I save that one for when I'm lying a-hull in a 60+kt SE'ter in the Shipping lanes of the Biscay...
Declare myself 'Not under Command' and 'Hazard to Navigation'.....
Stand by for the 'You can't do that...!!' crowd...
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Old 14-11-2011, 07:18   #38
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Re: Crew Wants to Abandon Ship, but Skipper Doesn't . . .

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In practice if your crew want off there's little you cam do but request rescue. Acting like captain Blythe will achieve nothing. These people are not paid hands but ordinary people out to have fun.

In my experience the vast majority of situations where boats that are still afloat are abandoned are as a result of crew demanding to get off


Dave

I assume Captain Blythe ran a happy ship, however.


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Old 14-11-2011, 07:27   #39
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Re: Crew Wants to Abandon Ship, but Skipper Doesn't . . .

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I assume Captain Blythe ran a happy ship, however.
"Floggings will continue until Morale improves"
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Old 14-11-2011, 07:27   #40
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Re: Crew Wants to Abandon Ship, but Skipper Doesn't . . .

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In an ideal world crew would do what the bl##dy hell they were told to

But, as we live in a world where everyone thinks their opinions matter easy to imagine circumstances where crew "Decide" it's time to abandon ship / call for rescue.....

........assuming a plea for sanity goes unheeded and the only other option is to physically restrain the person(s), which may not be practical - short of making it permanent ........any opinions (or downsides) on saying "Ok - YOU get in the liferaft and f#ck off" ......then put in call for a rescue, give a location and then either sail on (if that is needed) or attempt to stand by the raft......

Obviously family involved is a different dynamic, but nonetheless principal still stands

You physicall restrain someone without VERY good reason (and an opinion that "I'm the captain and I should be obeyed" may not be a good enough one) and you could be charged with unlawful restraint and even kidnapping.

When the Coast Guard does a rescue, they take everyone or no one. I spoke a couple of days ago about a fellow who managed to set a beacon on his boat the GC didn't spot, and go back and save his boat.

He had to do that because the CG took followed their rule of rescuing everyone or no one. Put people off your boat in a life raft while you stay aboard? I don't think the CG would go for that. And if you don't stay with them, and they die, you might be charged with murder.

I know I can't keep someone from JUMPING off my boat to save themselves. I had someone consider that when I took my boat away from the shore when we were in trouble. I was able to reason with her but you can bet she will never be on my boat again.

But if she'd jumped, I would have had to follow her into shore. Human life is more valuable than a sailboat.

And the fact is that just because I am "captain of my ship" doesn't mean I'm equipped to handle whatever emergency arises. I know you've been sailing a long time, but I know more than a few people who have been sailing a long time but not learning from experience. I won't' sail with them, but a beginner will not know what the right thing to do, and the truth is that you or I could be wrong.
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Old 14-11-2011, 07:28   #41
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Re: Crew Wants to Abandon Ship, but Skipper Doesn't . . .

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If they did not bring along their own raft, why should use yours??
i wouldn't let someone bring a second life raft on to my boat. They take up a lot of space.
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Old 14-11-2011, 07:30   #42
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Re: Crew Wants to Abandon Ship, but Skipper Doesn't . . .

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But unless youv'e "been there" before with that individual, you won't know where that person panics until he or she does.
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Old 14-11-2011, 07:31   #43
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Re: Crew Wants to Abandon Ship, but Skipper Doesn't . . .

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Obviously the best course of action is to run your boat in such a manner that people have enough respect for you that the idea of bailing on you is the last thing they'd want to do.
+1

and IMO it is primarily the Skipper's fault (from poor crew selection and management) that would generate such circumstances........but nonetheless he / she still needs to deal with the consequences. Ideally before things get hands on "messy"
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Old 14-11-2011, 07:34   #44
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Re: Crew Wants to Abandon Ship, but Skipper Doesn't . . .

That USCG forced rescue for all sounds bizarre - what do they say? "we are here to either save your life or to kill you".......

But that seems to only be a US thing.
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Old 14-11-2011, 07:52   #45
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Re: Crew Wants to Abandon Ship, but Skipper Doesn't . . .

I go along with Boatman61 and pan pan. If they (the crew) have enjoyed the day before then they may enjoy the next one. Obviously we would be in bad weather so I will suggest that we will turn back but it may be too dangerous to do so now. I will also suggest it will be better if they could take some rest because they may prevent injury to themselves and be fitter for an evacuation. I will also discuss the procedure and the risk involved in an evacuation. With daylight and the crew rested and getting used to the motion and the beauty of a storm they may want to continue. It will be me then who will decide if they should be evacuated or disembarked. If they had not enjoyed the day “before”, I would have turned back and disembarked them long before a storm struck.
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