Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 13-11-2011, 20:51   #16
Registered User
 
bewitched's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 885
Images: 3
Re: Crew Wants to Abandon Ship, but Skipper Doesn't . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel heart View Post
Obviously the best course of action is to run your boat in such a manner that people have enough respect for you that the idea of bailing on you is the last thing they'd want to do.
+1

Failing that, drop a hefty dose of diazipam in their tea.
__________________

__________________
bewitched is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2011, 21:07   #17
Registered User
 
Bloodhound's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Lake Texoma, Oklahoma
Boat: Westsail 32
Posts: 277
Re: Crew Wants to Abandon Ship, but Skipper Doesn't . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel heart View Post
Obviously the best course of action is to run your boat in such a manner that people have enough respect for you that the idea of bailing on you is the last thing they'd want to do.
Obviously so, but there are folks who would freak out sailing with Jesus Christ on the Sea of Galilee. The toughest looking bugger can turn to jelly in a small blow---it's fear, and fear is in the mind. Maybe psychological testing wouldn't be such a bad idea.
__________________

__________________
Bloodhound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2011, 23:11   #18
Registered User
 
Ironhorse74's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Vancouver Washington
Boat: Ed Monk designed 34' Sloop Second Wind
Posts: 400
Images: 1
Re: Crew Wants to Abandon Ship, but Skipper Doesn't . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post

........assuming a plea for sanity goes unheeded and the only other option is to physically restrain the person(s), which may not be practical
I prefer chains and manacles. Sort of an early 1800's slaver look.
__________________
Ironhorse74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-11-2011, 02:44   #19
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: Crew Wants to Abandon Ship, but Skipper Doesn't . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel1 View Post
If they did not bring along their own raft, why should use yours??
Good point. Maybe I could sell it to them.....
__________________
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-11-2011, 03:37   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: Westsail 28
Posts: 684
Images: 12
Re: Crew Wants to Abandon Ship, but Skipper Doesn't . . .

If a crew member has become panicky and is making bad decisions, can the captain legally restrain them?
__________________
virginia boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-11-2011, 04:40   #21
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: Crew wants to abandon ship, but Skipper doesn't?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bewitched View Post
Another drawback of putting them in the liferaft is that as a skipper you owe your crew a duty of care as lawyers like to say. If you plop them in the liferaft when its not necessary, you can probably expect legal action from family if he or she dies.
Probably worth making an entry in the ship's log and perhaps also mentioning to anyone in contact with via the VHF that crew were advised against. The safest way (legally) would probably be to

Fortunately I have no intention of ever being in US waters and therefore getting saved at gunpoint (and the loss of my vessel) is not likely to happen

Not looking to act like Capt Bligh (although a cat 'o' nine tails might be useful ), just to look after my own a#se and then cover it The way I see it is that Crew gone bad is a threat to the vessel (and therefore to me)......and in those circumstances pragmatism rules .

I will probably wait a little bit (until this thread fades away) before posting a "Crew Wanted" advert
__________________
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-11-2011, 04:40   #22
Registered User
 
ozskipper's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: NSW Australia
Boat: Traditional 30
Posts: 1,981
Re: Crew Wants to Abandon Ship, but Skipper Doesn't . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
In an ideal world crew would do what the bl##dy hell they were told to

But, as we live in a world where everyone thinks their opinions matter easy to imagine circumstances where crew "Decide" it's time to abandon ship / call for rescue.....

........assuming a plea for sanity goes unheeded and the only other option is to physically restrain the person(s), which may not be practical - short of making it permanent ........any opinions (or downsides) on saying "Ok - YOU get in the liferaft and f#ck off" ......then put in call for a rescue, give a location and then either sail on (if that is needed) or attempt to stand by the raft......

Obviously family involved is a different dynamic, but nonetheless principal still stands
It sounds like "someone" has just watched perfect storm lol.

In Tony Farringtons book "resue in the pacific" there are similar references to people leaving a seaworthy boat early. In those cases, all parties wanted out though. Boats found later blah blah.......and so on. Good Reading though.
__________________
Cheers
Oz
...............
ozskipper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-11-2011, 05:21   #23
Registered User
 
Tortuga's Lie's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Virginia
Boat: Tartan 4100
Posts: 384
Re: Crew Wants to Abandon Ship, but Skipper Doesn't . . .

Interesting discussion. Perhaps all crew need to fully understand what's at stake before departure and sign some sort of agreement that states "This is not a Princess Cruise Line and no life raft will be deployed until you have to step up into it" or something along those lines.... same thing for the use of an EPIRB
__________________
Tortuga's Lie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-11-2011, 05:40   #24
CF Adviser
Moderator Emeritus
 
Hud3's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Virginia
Boat: Island Packet 380, now sold
Posts: 8,929
Images: 49
Re: Crew Wants to Abandon Ship, but Skipper Doesn't . . .

There was a boat in the Caribbean 1500 a decade or so ago that had a fairly inexperienced crew, including the captain, who was a first timer. Once through the Gulf Stream, they got into the normal three-day gale force storm, and two of the crew decided they'd had enough. Without the captain's knowledge, they contacted the Coast Guard on the SSB. Can't remember if they set of the EPIRB--they may have.

The captain woke up to what was going on and told the CG that they didn't need rescue. The CG wanted to know who was in charge, and a big argument ensued on the boat. Finally the CG officer asked to speak to the two panicked crew members. He said something like, "Here's the procedure for taking you off the boat. A helo will pull up astern, lower a basket and drop a rescue swimmer. Then one by one, you will jump off the boat with your PFD on and swim to the basket, where you'll be hauled up to the helo. Then the next will do the same thing. Do you still want to be rescued?"

The crew members looked at the big waves, 40 kt winds, and blowing spume and decided they were better off on the boat. Rescue cancelled.

Here's the blog account. Interesting reading...

http://www.svquietly.com/ShipsLog/Ca...lantic%20Storm
__________________
Hud
Hud3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-11-2011, 05:53   #25
Senior Cruiser
 
Captain Bill's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On the boat
Boat: Endeavourcat Sailcat 44
Posts: 2,313
Re: Crew Wants to Abandon Ship, but Skipper Doesn't . . .

I would think that this is pretty clearly covered under admiralty law. If the crew usurps the captain's authority by calling for a rescue by radio or setting off the epirb or abandoning ship it's pretty clearly mutiny. Mutiny even on a private vessel is punishable by 10 years in prison in the US. Maybe people who do this should be prosecuted. I have never actually heard of anyone being prosecuted for mutiny as a result of this kind of action, but maybe they should.
__________________
Captain Bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-11-2011, 05:55   #26
Senior Cruiser
 
Blue Stocking's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: St. Georges, Bda
Boat: Rhodes Reliant 41ft
Posts: 4,117
Re: Crew Wants to Abandon Ship, but Skipper Doesn't . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by bewitched View Post
+1

Failing that, drop a hefty dose of diazipam in their tea.
"Don't stop, til you get enough------"
__________________
so many projects--so little time !!
Blue Stocking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-11-2011, 06:05   #27
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,317
Re: Crew Wants to Abandon Ship, but Skipper Doesn't . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bill View Post
I would think that this is pretty clearly covered under admiralty law. .

To date I've never read a thread here that involved laws or rules that appeared to be pretty clear based on the disagreement that will occur.
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-11-2011, 06:10   #28
Registered User
 
bewitched's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 885
Images: 3
Re: Crew Wants to Abandon Ship, but Skipper Doesn't . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Stocking View Post
"Don't stop, til you get enough------"
__________________
bewitched is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-11-2011, 06:25   #29
Registered User
 
denverd0n's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 3,953
Images: 6
Re: Crew Wants to Abandon Ship, but Skipper Doesn't . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
In an ideal world crew would do what the bl##dy hell they were told to
No, in an ideal world the captain would inspire so much confidence in the crew that these kinds of issues would never come up.

Barring outside influences (like drugs or a legitimate mental condition) I think the captain has to accept a significant percentage of the blame if members of the crew develop irrational fears. And if they started out with irrational fears, then the captain bears the blame for doing a poor job of picking his crew.
__________________
denverd0n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-11-2011, 06:27   #30
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,210
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate Re: Crew Wants to Abandon Ship, but Skipper Doesn't . . .

To date I've been lucky on my own boats...
I'm either solo or have one crew with absolute faith... there are one or two around..
On deliveries however is another thing... this year has been a repitition of 'owner assists' or 'owners crew'... in these case'sI don't play Cap'n Bligh...
I tend to let em think they're boss...
its amazing how fast they want to abdicate responsibility once things kick up...
On occasion I'll 'kick off' on shore at someone if I feel 'perturbed' by their bulk/attitude in an offshore sitution.. occasional insanity a useful asset...
They'll either leave or know their place and keep the peace..
best resolve these matters on dry land before heading out.
In delivery situations there's usually a dinghy & liferaft... they're welcome to the liferaft and a 'Pan Pan Medico'... till there's response...
Then they can send the position and disembark and I'll stand off till they're picked up...
There's lot of tricks a skipper can use to disuade the crew from abandoning... if the skippers a mind to...
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
Crew management, using an axe

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Crew of S/V 'Sanctuary' Abandon Ship YADO Cruising News & Events 461 23-12-2011 05:24
Crew of SV 'Elle' Abandon Ship YADO Cruising News & Events 41 09-11-2011 11:20
S/V 'Panache' Crew Abandons Ship CharlieCobra Cruising News & Events 111 30-11-2008 10:09



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:12.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.