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Old 11-07-2012, 23:00   #46
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Re: Coast Guard Fee's for Rescue???

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Originally Posted by btrayfors View Post
Hmm...let's see.

You fall asleep in your easy chair, your lighted cigarette falls to the carpet and starts a house fire.

Should you pay for the fire department's response? Should you pay for the rescue service ambulance and services to resuscitate you and get your sorry a__ to the hospital?

Should you pay for the police department call to your house for a false house alarm?

All governments in civilized countries provide a modicum of "free" services covering emergencies, even those caused by thoughtless individuals. That's what governments are all about...they're there to serve and to protect the public. Perhaps that's an antiquated idea, and we've surely lost sight of that in this country since the Reagan pronouncement that the "last thing you want to hear is, Hi, I'm from the government".

IMHO, the Coast Guard should continue to provide rescue services for both U.S. citizens and others off its shores, within reason, and without specific charge. As others point out, it's good practice. And, based on their record, they're damned good at it.

And the cost? A miniscule fraction of the money we waste on other frivolous and ill-considered activities.

Bill
This pretty much sums it up. Billing for negligence would just create another layer of bureaucratic ineptitude that would lose taxpayer dollars. The cost of all the salaries of investigators and "judges" for lack of a better word would easily outweigh the money recouped from the negligent. You can't squeeze water from a stone.

This is also a very slippery slope. Isn't it negligent to live in New Orleans? It's below sea level and regularly hit with storms. How about hikers who get lost? There are states who have negligent hiker laws but they rarely collect even if someone incurs a fine. Meanwhile we're spending money on people who's job it is to decide if they were negligent. Poorly thought out knee jerk responses from some idiot politician to offset what is actually a pretty tiny amount of money in the grand scheme of things.

Think about how much money we spent on trying to investigate Roger Clemens. To what end? Our elected officials are now involved in managing baseball? Lance Armstrong is likely to be investigated as well. Every congressman or senator who gets involved in such a frivolous waste of taxpayer resources should have their career ended by the voting public. We piss away money on all manner of things including lifetime pensions for politicians who are already stealing from the very people they are supposed to be working for. Lets not put a cost on saving lives when we rarely assess the costs of far less useful activities.

More importantly the lions share of the cost of having coast guard assets, is already paid. WE (and by we I mean the taxpayers) have the helicopter, we already sent the pilots to school the air crew and maintenance personnel to school, we're regularly funding their training flights, buying spare parts for helo's etc etc. Decrease the training flight rotation for every real mission they fly and call it good. We're saving lives. We save fat people who have heart attacks, and smokers who have cancer trying to pin the cost on boaters is pretty silly and would only waste MORE resources. Think before you rant.
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:36   #47
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Re: Coast Guard Fee's for Rescue???

Hmm.... Just a thought. If I named my boat "Not Insured" how it would affect to rescue services? Anyway I think I had more room while anchored in crowded places.
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Old 12-07-2012, 03:34   #48
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Re: Coast Guard Fee's for Rescue???

And with that not many Marina's would let you in, and some countries may restrict your cruising.....
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Old 12-07-2012, 06:53   #49
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Re: Coast Guard Fee's for Rescue???

Actually there's more historical basis and more modern changes involved. In Colonial times if you set you house on fire and had not bought fire insurance the fire company (we still call them that) did not come. Or several of them might come, stealing your goods while arguing with you over a price.
The only reason governments got into fire departments was to make sure those small fires got put out before whole cities burned, as they often did. It was all dollar and sense economics, except the fire companies made mafiosa waste haulers look like real gentlemen.

Today an additional 'stupid tax' is in fact the norm in NH SAR and some western states. Do something stupid (in NH the AG decides that with published rules) like take a deep hike without map compass gps water or coat, and they'll still come get you but you'll also get the bill. Which does not seem like an unreasonable thing at all.

And don't forget volunteer fire and rescue squads operate in much of the US. Call an ambulance? Yes you do get a bill. From gov. or private ones alike.
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Old 12-07-2012, 07:14   #50
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Re: Coast Guard Fee's for Rescue???

Gee I towed a USCG 44 fter in from the Colombia River bar once when there engine went away, I was on a 75 ft Fishing vessel at the time !! I got many thanks from the crew and such ! I did not charge them so I think I have one coming !! LOL The Coasties do wonderful work !! Ask any west coast fisheman what they think about the USCG!! you wont find many with complaints !! just sayin what would you do if you were haveing BAD problems at sea ?? Call your Insurence Company ?? I don't think it would help much !!! I would gladly pay a little more taxs if it went direcly to the USCG Just my 2 cents
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Old 12-07-2012, 07:23   #51
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Re: Coast Guard Fee's for Rescue???

Not YET, but give it time for a few hundred more rescues that should never have been needed, ie, un-prepared folks at sea and it'll change and fast!
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Old 12-07-2012, 07:35   #52
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Re: Coast Guard Fee's for Rescue???

How many needless deaths would a Coast Guard fee cause? I can imagine situations in which people should be calling for rescue, but wait too long trying to avoid hefty fees.
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Old 12-07-2012, 07:45   #53
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Re: Coast Guard Fee's for Rescue???

fees for service from entities that are already subsidized by tax dollars is paying twice, or getting taxed twice for the same service...

if the entity is already funded and exists, from taxpayer funds, then what does it cost extra for when they are 'in action'?

the infratructure is already in place... the equipment is in place, the insurance for them is in place, the hourly/salary/wages are already covered... (except maybe 'overtime'?) and that is a maybe...

if something was caused from negligence or on purpose, then maybe they can go after the individual for 'fraud', but they could not go after him for costs.... as those are already paid...

if they were occupied on a 'negligence' call and they were unable to rescue someone else, then that person could end up suing the entity and the person who was committing fraud... but then again, the infrastucture should be adequate to fight battles on multiple fronts....
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Old 12-07-2012, 08:51   #54
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Re: Coast Guard Fee's for Rescue???

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Originally Posted by rtbates View Post
Not YET, but give it time for a few hundred more rescues that should never have been needed, ie, un-prepared folks at sea and it'll change and fast!
Probably in connection with a cruiser's license, and mandatory surveys on the boat & gear. The priviledge and freedom of cruising must be curtailed and the peons kept on shore where they can be watched over, for their own good, and the good of the community. Just like there is freedom to express opinion, as long as it is the right opinion.

I'm putting a lot of effort into design of boat, systems, gear and training, so as to avoid ever needing rescue...it means a slow fogeyboat and mostly primitive stuff, redneck tech that will be called quaint but is difficult to break and easy to fix or replace. If I'm in a position to rescue someone, it's free of charge...
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Old 14-07-2012, 22:08   #55
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Re: Coast Guard Fee's for Rescue???

Fortunately in this wonderful culture in the U.S.A and many other countries, we are free to fly or climb, or sail without additional fees for legitimate rescues. Our biggest concern should be a moral obligation to be properly prepared in case assistance is needed. There are four basic things we should be prepared for to help rescue personnel:
1. Be able to communicate the distress to rescue personnel
2. Give an accurate position
3. Be prepared to handle the environment and stay alive
4. Be able to send out an electronic signal or radar signature to the rescuers
An EPIRB will solve 3 out of 4 of these items.
Staying alive until rescue personnel arrive takes some additional thinking.
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Old 15-07-2012, 01:10   #56
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Compare spend billions rescuing idiots in the financial crisis (overextended homeowners and banks) to the minuscule costs of CG rescue. Almost all the financial emergencies were predicted and avoidable.......
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Old 15-07-2012, 15:53   #57
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Re: Coast Guard Fee's for Rescue???

"fees for service from entities that are already subsidized by tax dollars is paying twice, or getting taxed twice for the same service..."
No, that math is wrong. When a fee is collected, the taxpayers effectively get re-imbursed for the taxes that they paid. Without the fees, the taxes would be higher. So if you are one of the folks who tolls a fee (usually charged when you've done something stupid or especially risky, as if there's any difference) then you are paying the feee--instead of everyone having to pay HIGHER taxes.

daddle-
"Compare spend billions rescuing idiots in the financial crisis (overextended homeowners and banks) "
Excuse me, but I don't think any idiots were rescued. The idiots were the folks who bought bonds or securities without knowing the basis for them. The idiots were the folks who paid vastly more than their homes were worth, because they "knew" values could keep skyrocketing forever in a magic pyramid scheme.
Did those folks get rescued? No. The folks who got rescued were the terribly clever financiers and outright criminal appraisers and loan officers, who knew very well what they were doing and how it inevitably had to end. A pretty good trick, screwing the rubes and then having the rubes turn around and pay for it.
I understand there will be a line on the new 1040 form asking if you want to donate an extra dollar for vaseline. I'm sure lots of folks will check "YES".
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