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Old 05-05-2016, 16:17   #16
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Re: Ciguatera and Lion Fish

And all of that has nothing to do with the original article I linked, which says that the boffins think that ciguatera detected in lionfish is a false positive based on the presence of venom proteins from the lionfish itself, which behave similarly in fish flesh assays used to detect ciguatera, but are not a significant concern because the lionfish venom proteins (unlike ciguatera) are broken down in cooking. They recommend that testing lionfish for ciguatera should be done after cooking to reduce the chance of false positives.

It's one study and its inconclusive and not verified, so you need to decide for yourself whether or not you want to put your faith in it.
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Old 05-05-2016, 22:49   #17
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Re: Ciguatera and Lion Fish

So I guess from what we have discussed you MIGHT not get poisoned from eating Lion Fish.
And the reason MAY be that the Lion Fish may possess an enzyme or some form of neurotransmitter that negates the toxin? Also I am sure there are many other plausible explanations but non the less very interesting.

And to Jesta Rebel just to bring you into reality I have personally known many people who have contacted Ciguatera by eating fish in the Caribbean not necessarily in the Virgins. Some of these are family members who still suffer the side affects.
Also as a Physician I have personally treated several cases of Ciguatera while working periodically in the Islands. Some cases were relatively mild with only diarrhea and vomiting while others ended up in the ICU on IV cardioactive drugs just to keep their blood pressure from going in the toilet. Another term for this is shock so these individuals were quite sick. If you continue to eat Barracuda you will become quite familiar with the disease however it appears Fortuna, the fat bitch of fate has spared you thus far.
So how do we protect ourselves from this dread disease? A friend of mine in the Cayman's who runs a charter fishing boat told me once he eats Barracuda all the time and has never been poisoned. So I asked him what his secret was and he simply stated that he makes his crew eat it first and if they don't get sick then he eats it. The scary thing is he was telling the truth.
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Old 05-05-2016, 23:27   #18
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Re: Ciguatera and Lion Fish

Last month i was in Rotan and they listed the lionfish as "do not eat" becuase of ciguatera.
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Old 05-05-2016, 23:31   #19
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Re: Ciguatera and Lion Fish

Lionfish has become a new favorite in Jamaica in the village my mom lives. Since she is also the local doctor I am sure she would have heard of any poisonings, and at least as of last week was still eating it herself two or three times a week.

Clearly the plural of anecdote is not data but this is a lot of anecdotes.


At least until there is a clearer finding I will continue to eat it regularly (it is delicious by the way).
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Old 06-05-2016, 08:42   #20
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Re: Ciguatera and Lion Fish

Come on folks let's play nice.
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Old 06-05-2016, 09:51   #21
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pirate Re: Ciguatera and Lion Fish

I don't know if it has been mentioned but in the Bahamas I learned that when you spear fish you let them in the sun and if the flies don't go on it you don't eat it. No Ciguatera for Ernie. Gave a lion fish once without flies to a stray cat in Dominica and saw it throwing up within 5 minutes.
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Old 06-05-2016, 10:06   #22
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Re: Ciguatera and Lion Fish

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I don't know if it has been mentioned but in the Bahamas I learned that when you spear fish you let them in the sun and if the flies don't go on it you don't eat it. No Ciguatera for Ernie. Gave a lion fish once without flies to a stray cat in Dominica and saw it throwing up within 5 minutes.
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Well, flies will muck around on ****, so doubt if they are any predictor of food safety. Not sure why someone would want to mess with a lionfish in the first place. Sounds like an act of desperation or poverty to do so.
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Old 06-05-2016, 10:12   #23
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Re: Ciguatera and Lion Fish

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Originally Posted by sailon46 View Post
I don't know if it has been mentioned but in the Bahamas I learned that when you spear fish you let them in the sun and if the flies don't go on it you don't eat it. No Ciguatera for Ernie. Gave a lion fish once without flies to a stray cat in Dominica and saw it throwing up within 5 minutes.
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"Many native tests for toxicity in fish have been examined, including the discoloration of silver coins or copper wire or the repulsion of flies and ants, but all of these were rejected as invalid. Oral feeding of fish to cats or mongoose is a simple and relatively sensitive assay, but cats often regurgitate part of the meal. Feeding tests described above have been used in screening fish for toxicity, but they are cumbersome and non quantitative."
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Old 06-05-2016, 10:15   #24
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Re: Ciguatera and Lion Fish

Haven't eaten any Lion Fish in 3 weeks and I miss the delicate succulent meat that far exceeds many other fish. The first time I ate it was cerviche and I was hooked on the taste from the start.
As far as the ant and fly scenarios go, they are no more than local superstitions. Short of a having sophisticated laboratory at your disposal there IS NO WAY TO DETECT CIGUATERA. Unless of course you feed it to your crew first.
I will however stop eating Lion Fish when I am sure it carries Ciguatera. The same as I did with Barracuda although I grew up eating a lot of Barracuda. Honestly I do miss the taste. It is another wonderful fish.
BTW Sailon46 did you cut the dorsal barbs off before feeding the Lion Fish to the cat ?
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Old 06-05-2016, 10:18   #25
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Re: Ciguatera and Lion Fish

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Well, flies will muck around on ****, so doubt if they are any predictor of food safety. Not sure why someone would want to mess with a lionfish in the first place. Sounds like an act of desperation or poverty to do so.
Because they are tasty, plentiful and EASY to spear. Bonus is helping the environment.

Snip off the venomous barbs...gut, clean, stuff with your favorite ingredients, wrap in foil and throw on the grill. Taste is described as delicate, light and delicious.

Safety seems to be more a matter of opinion at this point. More ciguatera tests need to be done on COOKED lion fish to really know what the risks are.
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Old 06-05-2016, 10:23   #26
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Re: Ciguatera and Lion Fish

Well reed1v no desperation here.
I also eat cows, pigs and chickens. Not the most hygienic creatures on this earth. I once saw chickens eating vomit but I still eat them.
You might change your mind if you tried Lion Fish.
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Old 06-05-2016, 10:49   #27
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Re: Ciguatera and Lion Fish

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Like I said, please show me some proof, because I've never seen any. Let me put it another way. No hospital or doctor in the VI (us or bvi) has ever recorded a single case that has been documented.
I put it in google and this comes up: At least 50,000 cases a year in the Virgin Islands and most likely many more due to misdiagnosis and underreporting:

https://books.google.ca/books?id=LMZ...gin+islands&so
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Old 06-05-2016, 11:07   #28
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Re: Ciguatera and Lion Fish

I believe it may all be in knowing how to dress them. I had seen something about Lionfish may be a viable catch for marketing. Barracuda is a staple in the Bahamas for natives.
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Old 06-05-2016, 11:37   #29
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Re: Ciguatera and Lion Fish

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Not to be contrary, but I find this report to be complete hogwash. I've lived, worked, and sailed throughout the Caribbean since 2002 and I challenge anyone on this board to show me one confirmed case of someone contracting ciguatera from eating fish in the USVI. any island. I use to hear, "you can't eat fish caught off of the south", "you can't eat reef fish", you can't eat kingfish", and so on. Here is the truth. I have never contracted it and we eat a lot of fish. I have never heard of anyone in the Caribbean contracting it and I'm telling you that West Indians eat ALL FISH. Barracuda too. even the bigger ones. Last, Lionfish is excellent table fare, and is served in many restaurants and fish houses throughout the Caribbean including Off the Hook and "The Green House" on St. Thomas.This is simply another case of someone in an American agency trying to validate their job talking about a fantasy.
While not technically Caribbean, the Bahamas are West Indies and I've met a few cruisers and read reports from several that had ciguaterra poisoning in the Bahamas. If I recall, most cases from eating larger, carnivorous fish.
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Old 06-05-2016, 11:51   #30
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Re: Ciguatera and Lion Fish

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Originally Posted by techmans View Post
I put it in google and this comes up: At least 50,000 cases a year in the Virgin Islands and most likely many more due to misdiagnosis and underreporting:

https://books.google.ca/books?id=LMZ...gin+islands&so
That number seemed really high considering the total population of US and BVI is only 130,000 but internet says there are over 2,000,000 tourists per year. That would be about 2.5% of the visitors, assuming they feed them all the bad fish.
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