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Old 16-06-2012, 08:41   #1
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CE Registration on a yacht??

Hi we require to get a CE mark added to a pleasure / sail boat that is 65ft does anyone know roughly how much this may cost?

And what is actually required for a CE registration to be aquired?

Is it an extremly indepth process or less to be worried about than we think?

Why does everyone outside of EU not require this on there used boats?..

And also if the boat is registered outside of Europe but is brought into Europe by a European does it need to be done?

Any light you can give on CE Markings are much appreciated.

Thanks in Advance.
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Old 16-06-2012, 10:13   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zooplax
Hi we require to get a CE mark added to a pleasure / sail boat that is 65ft does anyone know roughly how much this may cost?

And what is actually required for a CE registration to be aquired?

Is it an extremly indepth process or less to be worried about than we think?

Why does everyone outside of EU not require this on there used boats?..

And also if the boat is registered outside of Europe but is brought into Europe by a European does it need to be done?

Any light you can give on CE Markings are much appreciated.

Thanks in Advance.
All boats imported in the EU since 1996 are required to be CE marked. The idea behind CE ( which was pushed by the UK) w that boats built in each EU goes through a standardised testing mechanism. Hence individual EU countries cannot Impose lessor or greater standards. ( in an effort to restrict their marketplace)

To keep the field even , all secondhand boats imported require CE marking. This is to prevent a flood of boats that bypassed the regulatory process

You can get a "post construction assessment" which allows you to via a proper notified body to apply and be granted CE approval. The simplest is category D which is for very sheltered waters ( ie canals). Costs vary depending on what needs to be done. ( 10k being typical for a 40 footer) Simply getting approval for a CAT D boat does ( in general ) not limit you to where u want to go. But may be a problem when you sell the boat.

Google CEProof in the UK.

Don't forget VAT and import duties and local boat taxes in certain EU countries

Dave
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Old 16-06-2012, 10:31   #3
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Re: CE Registration on a yacht??

Hi we require to get a CE mark added to a pleasure / sail boat that is 65ft does anyone know roughly how much this may cost?
A lot.. not sure if it is even possible becouse the notifying body got to (in this size and category) control and approve many things allready in the production phase of the boat. It might be possible afterwards if the manufacturer has a good production control, the boat is ISO compliant etc..

And what is actually required for a CE registration to be aquired?
See above

Is it an extremly indepth process or less to be worried about than we think?
See above

Why does everyone outside of EU not require this on there used boats?..
Dunno, thou it's a matter of comliance of ISO standars, CE marking follows that. But boat's old enough aren't required to..

And also if the boat is registered outside of Europe but is brought into Europe by a European does it need to be done?
Depends on age and if it's intended for sale..

Answers on red

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Old 16-06-2012, 10:44   #4
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Re: CE Registration on a yacht??

Hi,

when I was on the market for an US yacht I got several, very different estimations from dealers (not the guys who actually did the certification). It ranged from 5k to 15k US - not sure if this was with the needed modifications - see below.

Importent is to ask the manufacture first if they build the boat to any kind of standard and can give you that certificate that can help.
Another thing sometimes gets forgotten: Check if your boat was ever registered before in the EU, as far I recall boats which had been there before '98 do not need a certification - but not sure how it is with re import.

To my understanding the problem is normally not the certification itself is the highes cost issue. You will have a guy on board which measures and checks every single detail. If he is very bureaucratic you may have to change a whole set of configurations which could makes a post certification almost impossible. They measure from Hull thickness to noise and exhaust from the engine, safety systems - you name it. If you lucky is a few hundred bucks for electric change, if you have a real bad day, they may ask you to change the lifelines (often to low) or worse, they say your freeboard is to low for CE Standard (happens to a friend of mine)!

Learned this I looked for a CE certificated boat. If you already decided, I would take a step by step approach and first check if there are bigger obstacles with your particular boat, so you would be able to stop the process before you spend a fortune.

PS. The friend with the "too low freeboard" still has the boat - just no EU flag :-)
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Old 16-06-2012, 14:53   #5
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Re: CE Registration on a yacht??

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Originally Posted by swisscraft View Post
Hi,

when I was on the market for an US yacht I got several, very different estimations from dealers (not the guys who actually did the certification). It ranged from 5k to 15k US - not sure if this was with the needed modifications - see below.

Importent is to ask the manufacture first if they build the boat to any kind of standard and can give you that certificate that can help.
Another thing sometimes gets forgotten: Check if your boat was ever registered before in the EU, as far I recall boats which had been there before '98 do not need a certification - but not sure how it is with re import.

To my understanding the problem is normally not the certification itself is the highes cost issue. You will have a guy on board which measures and checks every single detail. If he is very bureaucratic you may have to change a whole set of configurations which could makes a post certification almost impossible. They measure from Hull thickness to noise and exhaust from the engine, safety systems - you name it. If you lucky is a few hundred bucks for electric change, if you have a real bad day, they may ask you to change the lifelines (often to low) or worse, they say your freeboard is to low for CE Standard (happens to a friend of mine)!

Learned this I looked for a CE certificated boat. If you already decided, I would take a step by step approach and first check if there are bigger obstacles with your particular boat, so you would be able to stop the process before you spend a fortune.

PS. The friend with the "too low freeboard" still has the boat - just no EU flag :-)
So Your Friend??, are they able to sail in European waters without problems?? and are they european nationality?? this is the bit which is confusing me.. if the boat is registered else where can it come into european waters for a certain length of time before having to leave?..
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Old 16-06-2012, 16:05   #6
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Re: CE Registration on a yacht??

You DONT need CE certification to sail in the EU you only need it if you are IMPORTING the boat Importing means the boat is going to stay in the EU (you are probably a resident/citizen of a EU country) and or be sold on in the EU
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Old 16-06-2012, 16:29   #7
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Re: CE Registration on a yacht??

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You DONT need CE certification to sail in the EU you only need it if you are IMPORTING the boat Importing means the boat is going to stay in the EU (you are probably a resident/citizen of a EU country) and or be sold on in the EU
But there is a time limit it can stay in EU waters right? before it needs CE registered and Tax / VAt is due??

For arguments sake: I buy a boat that isnt CE registered outside EU waters, I then want to sail in EU waters for 2 Years exploring, I then plan to do a winter outside of EU waters and then return again to EU waters after the winter for a further 1 Year... I then Plan to sell the boat to a buyer outside the EU.

Can anyone advsie??
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Old 16-06-2012, 18:40   #8
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Re: CE Registration on a yacht??

Ok, several questions to my entry: I try to answer them to the best of my knowledge (but that was my particular research, and I'm not EU citizen) so different rules may apply for you:

- You can stay 18 months with a foreign flagged vessel, then you have to leave the EU and come back so the period starts again. But thats just for VAT reasons. Nothing to do with CE.
- My friends with the foreign flagged vessel are EU citizens but not cruise the EU (yet).
- CE is indeed just needed if you like to sell or flag the boat within the EU - the rule is not applying for just sailing within the EU on a foreign flagged boat.

BUT, and this is a big BUT, you may have to dig much deeper for the VAT issue. Some countries have a financial police and they check if the VAT is paid for you boat. Since this can be 20 or more percent of the boat value you may check that even more carefully beforehand than the CE certification.

So zooplax (and it would be easier if we had a bit more information about you, nationality boat and so one) its really depend where you live. If UK, you may talk with some boaters in Turkey - they have a big population of VAT free UK boats there and I guess they know a lot more. If your italian you may be extra carefully as if you are french - they tend to control much more, even on the water. Spain seems pretty relaxed and if they "catch" you a few years later your happily pay the VAT for the current value of the boat....but that's just her say.

Saying so - There is VAT and CE both can be costly- I recommend you get a tax lawyer involved and a professional CE certification agency a well BEFORE you buy a 60ft boat! I would not take the chances with so much money involved based on forum advice (including mine).

good luck
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Old 16-06-2012, 22:05   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zooplax

But there is a time limit it can stay in EU waters right? before it needs CE registered and Tax / VAt is due??

For arguments sake: I buy a boat that isnt CE registered outside EU waters, I then want to sail in EU waters for 2 Years exploring, I then plan to do a winter outside of EU waters and then return again to EU waters after the winter for a further 1 Year... I then Plan to sell the boat to a buyer outside the EU.

Can anyone advsie??
If you are a EU tax resident, ie you live here. Then you DONOT have any time allowance, you must have a CE boat and you must pay vat immediately on import. Importation occurs the minute you in effect sail into the customs union of the EU. No ifs or buts. Sorry of you don't like what you are being told. In my experience there is no economic advantage importing a US boat

Don't listen to nonsense. These are the facts.

Post construction CE assessment can be cheap to expensive. You need to contact a proper certifying body
Like CE proof in the uk

Note a lot of time there can be little or no change to the boat.
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Old 16-06-2012, 22:13   #10
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Hi we require to get a CE mark added to a pleasure / sail boat that is 65ft does anyone know roughly how much this may cost?
A lot.. not sure if it is even possible becouse the notifying body got to (in this size and category) control and approve many things allready in the production phase of the boat. It might be possible afterwards if the manufacturer has a good production control, the boat is ISO compliant etc..
No this isnt correct if defends on the category you chose to certify under. There is nothing to stop certifying a 65 ft yacht under category D ( which is self certification) i

Quote:
And what is actually required for a CE registration to be aquired?
See above

Is it an extremly indepth process or less to be worried about than we think?
See above

Why does everyone outside of EU not require this on there used boats?..
Dunno, thou it's a matter of comliance of ISO standars, CE marking follows that. But boat's old enough aren't required to..
Again wrong. Only boats IN THE EU before 1995 , ie before the directive came in , are exempt ( ie there were grandfathered in) today all boats bring imported or built ( excluding self builds) are required to be CE registered. Irrespective of age


CE isn't primarily about adherence to ISO standards not all the standards apply, CE is about detailing a common quality control process and ensuring a consistent build quality to a certain standard. Post assessment focuses more on ISO adherence.

As to why inside the EU and not outside, merely because it's a EU law and only applicable here.
Quote:
And also if the boat is registered outside of Europe but is brought into Europe by a European does it need to be done?
Depends on age and if it's intended for sale..
Again wrong , read the line " brought into Europe by a European" the boat must have all vat and taxes paid immediately on import a d must be CE marked


The fact is given the cost of a 65 ft yacht. The post construction CE assessment isn't a big proportion of the cost. Note that post construction assessment is a different system to the one used by production companies that build a series of yachts. It was added to the directive to allow exactly what the OP is trying to do

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Old 17-06-2012, 14:12   #11
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Re: CE Registration on a yacht??

I don't know, but is CE a type dependent issue (all boats of a make/model) or done for a specific boat? If type dependent there may have been another of them imported prior to you, and you could use their certification again (this is done for some standards bodies).
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Old 17-06-2012, 15:32   #12
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I don't know, but is CE a type dependent issue (all boats of a make/model) or done for a specific boat? If type dependent there may have been another of them imported prior to you, and you could use their certification again (this is done for some standards bodies).
Post construction assessment is done on an individual boat basis. To do series type Certification you'd have to be the manufacturer. ( in essence)

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