Carrying firearms while cruising - Page 9

bstreep · 07-07-2008, 18:06

Well, I certainly agree with you on the machete. And on keeping a small stash, just in case.

Note, I'm from Texas. Most of the time, I'm armed. Legally, and I'm very good. However, that's because of what I do for a living - I'm often in the "wrong place at the wrong time".

As for anything else, this is a public forum, and I choose not to discuss any future plans. BTW, several friends who are cruising have noted that "TEXAS" on the stern tends to discourage folks... One also found that flying a Texas flag tends to confuse the gendarmerie - it looks very similar to several other flags, in particular Chile.

Fixer · 07-07-2008, 19:12

Looking back to post #29:

Many people raise the concern about facing authorities in a foreign country after using force upon another person. If one had an undeclared firearm onboard and used it in a morally justifiable way “on the high seas”, why would one wait around for the local authorities anyway? Beyond a firearm, even using a rigging knife to dispatch a human attacking you, nothing good can come of waiting for the locals.

With questionable justice systems in some banana republics where officials maybe prejudiced and at worst related to your “victim” nothing good can come of calling the authorities.

About fifteen years ago I was traveling through Europe with my father who was in his late 70s. He had the unfortunate experience of being the intended the victim of a street robbery committed by five thugs (it was no “misunderstanding” as we spoke the local language). Neither of us was armed with any type of weapon. I was close by and able to inflict serious, life threatening and most likely permanent injuries to the most aggressive ruffian. (His fellow ruffians ran away after I almost killed their mate.) I did not wait around for the local law enforcement to arrive. I had (have) no intention of spending time in anybody’s prison or being judged by a system that may not hold the right to self defense in as high regard as the courts in the USA.

I must say that over many years of travel through many countries that was my only experience where physical violence was needed to resolve a situation. There was no reason to involve the local authorities and risk spending time in jail for doing the right thing. If on a vessle, there is also the risk of it being seized.

Tellie · 07-07-2008, 22:02

Ok I've been kickin this idea around in my head for awhile. It's not perfect but it could be an alternative to guns. As some already know I built my own engine driven Watermaker off a Cat pump. Now if anyone has ever used a pressure cleaner and was tempted to use the red single stream nozzle attached to the wand, you might see where I'm going here, it puts out a pretty impressive 30-40 foot seriously powerful stream. I have basically the same pump on my pressure cleaner as I do on my watermaker. A simple three/way valve, 40' of high pressure hose and a 4 foot wand and I have an onboard pressure cleaner and a pretty serious weapon to at least keep non gun weilding evil doers at bay. Hit someone with that stream at 15 feet and it hands out a pretty wicked sting. Hit them at 5 feet or less and it rips skin and muscle to the bone like a jagged knife. Can't see too many countries having a problem with this on board. Just a thought.

exfishnz · 08-07-2008, 00:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by chkrhntr1945

Interesting views from folks that come from the countries that have given up their right to self defense

That's probably because the ones that are not "anti firearms" (like myself) are hesitant of posting – incase they stand on someone's toes & have their posts removed or over analysed & pulled apart

Downunder its never been an acceptable reason to acquire a firearms licence for self defence. You can only acquire a licence for occupation or sport. However, if some maniac with an armed firearm (most probably an illegal one) breaks into your house & threatens your safety & you shoot him (in a genuine act of self defence), then I don't believe a jury is going to send you to prison.

Boracay · 08-07-2008, 02:08

To stop the Solomon Islanders from killing each other in an ongoing civil war the RAMSI force took their guns away.

Now they have to get RAMSI to kill their crocodiles for them.

Interesting to see a newspaper from a country that was ripping itself apart recently.

Boracay · 08-07-2008, 02:43

Better link to RAMSI croc story here.

Chiroeurope · 08-07-2008, 02:46

First I must Applaud those that have figured ways to stop a problem without a gun.

Secondly I must state that I am NOT anti gun. I have own firearms and stand to inherit a collection from my Father (who has a CWL) and has had to use a pistol once to defend himself (interesting he never had to fire it at the criminals).

On the High Seas and in Harbors fire arms are a mixed bag and if you decide to carry be very aware of the rules that you must deal with or that you choose to break (the penalties can be very nasty).

Defense of ones family and property has different views in different societies (heck here in the UK the views change by social class and area of the country). I am not a pacifist as I have seen to many of them get dead or beaten badly (worse yet, end up being passive aggressive slaves to the social norm).

I have been working on ways to defend ones home and property at sea and in harbor for the last three years and the answers are not simple and yet they are. Hopefully in the near future I will have it all together to publish it and will let everyone know where I post it for people to look at the information and the why for of getting there. The three main items that come up are these though:

What level of responsibility are you willing to realize and take for your own safety and life? (this dictates a lot of the later actions and can be heavily influenced by many social and personal factors)
Given the choice of above how are you going to cope with what real danger there are in proper relation to all other items of life? (people tend to over focus on the items that can cause fear or danger and while are real problems in many areas of the yachting world, there are simple ways to deal with it)
Choose how to do what you have chosen and than work with others as best as possible to reduce or eliminate what problems can be controlled (this means being willing to work with others even if they don't hold the same view)

So far this seems to hold up the best in any test structure that I can come up with (I also have friends both in the Sailing community and outside throwing the monkey wrench at it). Anyone have additional views please would like to hear them (constructive criticism is useful, fool's are given their value).

The tool's that are on a sailboat are very extensive in the ability to be used to defend a boat, many just don't take the time to really look and to think in ways that I would prefer we don't need to think (unfortunately Uncle Sam and growing up in a racially volatile [race riots when in junior high] area has taught me other wise). That with a lot of training in many different arts of combat and Professional healthcare training does give one some pretty interesting insights.

The best advice I have is truly think it out first and than choose. After all Life is CHOICE.

Best of luck and hope this didn't muddle the waters any further.

Michael

exfishnz · 08-07-2008, 02:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boracay

To stop the Solomon Islanders from killing each other in an ongoing civil war the RAMSI force took their guns away.

I doubt that was the key factor of solving their internal stabilisation issue's. In a real civil war, you wouldn't even be able to remove people's firearms without delivering political & economic stabilisation to the people that are already at war with each other.

Btw: In Rwanda (& many other places) they also use machetes to kill each other.

cooper · 08-07-2008, 04:10

Geeez....I had a post pulled because a gave a real scenario about killing someone by accident.... TO DO WITH BOATS that is enought to P$^^%^# me off.....NOW this ....By the way ....what makes you think that an "aggressor" is going to come up in a clanky old timber (foreign looking" smoking thing....) and .....never mind the stereo types you create are breath taking.... WHAT I hear you say but thats who the pirates are ......perhaps they wear bloody black hats too ??? Dead men tell no tales ....the super flash plastic that comes up with a grin and a wave just might be your nemesis too.....

put the guns away boys....

exfishnz · 08-07-2008, 05:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by cooper

Geeez....I had a post pulled because a gave a real scenario about killing someone by accident.... TO DO WITH BOATS that is enought to P$^^%^# me off.....NOW this....

G'day Cooper,

Don't get too upset buddy, it happened to a few of us (regardless of which side we take).

Btw: did you check my numbers again in John's thread?

cooper · 08-07-2008, 05:54

yep I did but you arent on the side of the angels.... A quote that if you are a serious old bugger and local you would know......

exfishnz · 08-07-2008, 06:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by cooper

yep I did but you arent on the side of the angels.... A quote that if you are a serious old bugger and local you would know......

Glad you checked the figures. Re: angels, mate, no such thing.

**sneuman** · 08-07-2008, 06:07

ah "guns and cruising" aka the ad nauseum thread.

cooper · 08-07-2008, 06:41

nauseum ....thought there would be more sense.. angels...?? there is a heap of them on this web site alone..... dont take magic or religion it takes belief in good people ...there are plenty of angels ...get into a serious shitty situation and have some one help and disappear.... they are out there... believe me......

exfishnz · 08-07-2008, 06:50

Quote:

nauseum

A bit ironic of this term being bought up with all of us (in this thread) still posting - isn't it?

Quote:

dont take magic or religion it takes belief in good people ...there are plenty of angels

My interpretation of your post re: "side of angels" means "on the side of right (or good)" (I could be wrong?). My opinion (re: firearms) is not based on what's "right" or "wrong" in someone's else's mind. There's no morals if confronted in a very bad situation.

07-07-2008, 18:06	#121
bstreep Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: San Antonio, TX/Corpus Christi, TX Boat: 1990 Macintosh 47, "Merlin" Posts: 308	Well, I certainly agree with you on the machete. And on keeping a small stash, just in case. Note, I'm from Texas. Most of the time, I'm armed. Legally, and I'm very good. However, that's because of what I do for a living - I'm often in the "wrong place at the wrong time". As for anything else, this is a public forum, and I choose not to discuss any future plans. BTW, several friends who are cruising have noted that "TEXAS" on the stern tends to discourage folks... One also found that flying a Texas flag tends to confuse the gendarmerie - it looks very similar to several other flags, in particular Chile. __________________ Bill Streep San Antonio/Corpus Christi, TX

08-07-2008, 02:08	#125
Boracay Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: nr Blackwattle Bay,Sydney, NSW, Australia Boat: Steel Roberts Offshore 44 Posts: 1,278 Images: 12	This is what happens when those do gooders take the guns away... To stop the Solomon Islanders from killing each other in an ongoing civil war the RAMSI force took their guns away. Now they have to get RAMSI to kill their crocodiles for them. Interesting to see a newspaper from a country that was ripping itself apart recently. __________________ Rust never sleeps Boracay Blog. Last edited by Boracay; 08-07-2008 at 02:29..

08-07-2008, 02:43	#126
Boracay Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: nr Blackwattle Bay,Sydney, NSW, Australia Boat: Steel Roberts Offshore 44 Posts: 1,278 Images: 12	Better link to croc story... Better link to RAMSI croc story here. __________________ Rust never sleeps Boracay Blog.

08-07-2008, 02:46	#127
Chiroeurope Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Scotland Boat: Looking with intent Posts: 71	First I must Applaud those that have figured ways to stop a problem without a gun. Secondly I must state that I am NOT anti gun. I have own firearms and stand to inherit a collection from my Father (who has a CWL) and has had to use a pistol once to defend himself (interesting he never had to fire it at the criminals). On the High Seas and in Harbors fire arms are a mixed bag and if you decide to carry be very aware of the rules that you must deal with or that you choose to break (the penalties can be very nasty). Defense of ones family and property has different views in different societies (heck here in the UK the views change by social class and area of the country). I am not a pacifist as I have seen to many of them get dead or beaten badly (worse yet, end up being passive aggressive slaves to the social norm). I have been working on ways to defend ones home and property at sea and in harbor for the last three years and the answers are not simple and yet they are. Hopefully in the near future I will have it all together to publish it and will let everyone know where I post it for people to look at the information and the why for of getting there. The three main items that come up are these though: What level of responsibility are you willing to realize and take for your own safety and life? (this dictates a lot of the later actions and can be heavily influenced by many social and personal factors) Given the choice of above how are you going to cope with what real danger there are in proper relation to all other items of life? (people tend to over focus on the items that can cause fear or danger and while are real problems in many areas of the yachting world, there are simple ways to deal with it) Choose how to do what you have chosen and than work with others as best as possible to reduce or eliminate what problems can be controlled (this means being willing to work with others even if they don't hold the same view) So far this seems to hold up the best in any test structure that I can come up with (I also have friends both in the Sailing community and outside throwing the monkey wrench at it). Anyone have additional views please would like to hear them (constructive criticism is useful, fool's are given their value). The tool's that are on a sailboat are very extensive in the ability to be used to defend a boat, many just don't take the time to really look and to think in ways that I would prefer we don't need to think (unfortunately Uncle Sam and growing up in a racially volatile [race riots when in junior high] area has taught me other wise). That with a lot of training in many different arts of combat and Professional healthcare training does give one some pretty interesting insights. The best advice I have is truly think it out first and than choose. After all Life is CHOICE. Best of luck and hope this didn't muddle the waters any further. Michael __________________ What you see in the Universe, sees you. - James W. Parker DC

08-07-2008, 04:10	#129
cooper Registered User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Back of the Dandenongs, Australia Posts: 939 Images: 6	Geeez....I had a post pulled because a gave a real scenario about killing someone by accident.... TO DO WITH BOATS that is enought to P$^^%^# me off.....NOW this ....By the way ....what makes you think that an "aggressor" is going to come up in a clanky old timber (foreign looking" smoking thing....) and .....never mind the stereo types you create are breath taking.... WHAT I hear you say but thats who the pirates are ......perhaps they wear bloody black hats too ??? Dead men tell no tales ....the super flash plastic that comes up with a grin and a wave just might be your nemesis too..... put the guns away boys.... __________________ One ferro 30 on the water, one steel 38 nearly finished..truck booked....Not a lot of time ; ) !!

07-07-2008, 19:12	#122
Fixer Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Connecticut for now Posts: 3	Looking back to post #29: Many people raise the concern about facing authorities in a foreign country after using force upon another person. If one had an undeclared firearm onboard and used it in a morally justifiable way “on the high seas”, why would one wait around for the local authorities anyway? Beyond a firearm, even using a rigging knife to dispatch a human attacking you, nothing good can come of waiting for the locals. With questionable justice systems in some banana republics where officials maybe prejudiced and at worst related to your “victim” nothing good can come of calling the authorities. About fifteen years ago I was traveling through Europe with my father who was in his late 70s. He had the unfortunate experience of being the intended the victim of a street robbery committed by five thugs (it was no “misunderstanding” as we spoke the local language). Neither of us was armed with any type of weapon. I was close by and able to inflict serious, life threatening and most likely permanent injuries to the most aggressive ruffian. (His fellow ruffians ran away after I almost killed their mate.) I did not wait around for the local law enforcement to arrive. I had (have) no intention of spending time in anybody’s prison or being judged by a system that may not hold the right to self defense in as high regard as the courts in the USA. I must say that over many years of travel through many countries that was my only experience where physical violence was needed to resolve a situation. There was no reason to involve the local authorities and risk spending time in jail for doing the right thing. If on a vessle, there is also the risk of it being seized.

07-07-2008, 22:02	#123
Tellie Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 310	Ok I've been kickin this idea around in my head for awhile. It's not perfect but it could be an alternative to guns. As some already know I built my own engine driven Watermaker off a Cat pump. Now if anyone has ever used a pressure cleaner and was tempted to use the red single stream nozzle attached to the wand, you might see where I'm going here, it puts out a pretty impressive 30-40 foot seriously powerful stream. I have basically the same pump on my pressure cleaner as I do on my watermaker. A simple three/way valve, 40' of high pressure hose and a 4 foot wand and I have an onboard pressure cleaner and a pretty serious weapon to at least keep non gun weilding evil doers at bay. Hit someone with that stream at 15 feet and it hands out a pretty wicked sting. Hit them at 5 feet or less and it rips skin and muscle to the bone like a jagged knife. Can't see too many countries having a problem with this on board. Just a thought.

08-07-2008, 05:54	#131
cooper Registered User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Back of the Dandenongs, Australia Posts: 939 Images: 6	yep I did but you arent on the side of the angels.... A quote that if you are a serious old bugger and local you would know...... __________________ One ferro 30 on the water, one steel 38 nearly finished..truck booked....Not a lot of time ; ) !!

08-07-2008, 06:07	#133
sneuman Moderator Site Helper Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Severna Park, MD Boat: Tayana 37 Cutter - "Symbiosis" Posts: 677 Images: 21	ah "guns and cruising" aka the ad nauseum thread. __________________ We shall not cease from exploration And the end of all our exploring Will be to arrive where we started And know the place for the first time. T.S. Eliot

08-07-2008, 06:41	#134
cooper Registered User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Back of the Dandenongs, Australia Posts: 939 Images: 6	nauseum ....thought there would be more sense.. angels...?? there is a heap of them on this web site alone..... dont take magic or religion it takes belief in good people ...there are plenty of angels ...get into a serious shitty situation and have some one help and disappear.... they are out there... believe me...... __________________ One ferro 30 on the water, one steel 38 nearly finished..truck booked....Not a lot of time ; ) !!

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