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Old 16-04-2007, 15:23   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankZ
While a I can not verify their data, a quick google seach turned up:

NationMaster - Statistics > Murders (per capita) by country

This shows the US as #24 per capita, not the top in the word by far for murders. It does not break down how the murder occured (gun, knife, dropping someone out a window).

People without guns will find other ways of killing people. Guns just make it easy and efficent. We have guns, not onboard, and they are mostly family heirlooms.
Same web site and I found this.

NationMaster - Statistics > Murders with firearms (per capita) by country
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Old 16-04-2007, 16:01   #77
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I know the campus and Norris Hall particularly well. prob 90% of those who died today were freshmen and sophmore engineering students taking basic entry level classes.

I've lived and worked in that community for almost 8 years. Among the students, the only weapon that would have been carried may have been a lockblade by the more redneck students in a pants pocket. Maybe three people in the entire hall had one. I know the locals since I had to work with and among them on a survey crew. Almost every single family would have 2 or more guns. A pistol, A rifle and a shotgun. Everything shuts down during deer season. That is why they own firearms, and in several cases that is one of the few ways they were able to put food on the table most of year (deer season or not). The only gun 'accidents' they suffered fall in two categories ( I was also an EMT) Cat 1) drunk and playing with guns, or Cat 2) domestic dispute or other emotional disturbance. I can tell you from personal experience that them not having a gun would not have done anything other than make them choose another 'tool' for what ever they were going to do.

I will also tell you that they are some of the most friendly, quiet and relatively happy people I have met in a good long time. And I am honored to be able to call some of them my friends. They are the ones who responded as police and EMS to the scene. I assure you from practical experince, they don't miss when they aim at something.

My heart goes out to all the families of those students.

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Old 16-04-2007, 16:20   #78
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Wow, to whomever is responsible . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by taojones

And, though I can't cite a source for this at the moment*, France is reputed to be, and has been for quite some time, the world's favorite tourist destination. As far as being a destination for those wishing to emigrate to the US, legally or otherwise, most immigrants would probably say it was because they sought economic opportunity, not greater freedom.

According to the below-noted sources*: France, Spain, United States, China, Italy … (in that order)
are the top tourist destinations

*Sources:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0198352.html
and
http://www.world-tourism.org/facts/e.../Top25_ita.pdf
. . . for the information and the links, and for however you were able to add them to my post, thanks . . . I think.

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Old 17-04-2007, 06:49   #79
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Gun quandry...

I always carry a pistol in my vehicle when we are traveling away from home. It would make sense to me to do the same aboard a boat but with all the rules and regs of the various countries, the gun may get you into more trouble than it could ever get you out of. Just something else to ponder while I dream of making the jump.
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Old 17-04-2007, 09:40   #80
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"Bear pepper spray"
There's a host of jokes about rangers and bear trackers and pepper spray. Along the lines of:

Q: Ranger, how do you know the missing campers had a bear encounter near here?
A: This pile of bear scat smells like pepper and has little silver bear bells in it.


Although, "they" also say it might be easier to elude a thousand pounds of pissed off carnivore when he can't open his eyes while he's chasing you.<G>
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Old 17-04-2007, 22:04   #81
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Hellosailor,

Thanks for the bear pepper spray story. I'm sure it gets a big laugh around your camp fires. Did you hear the one about the farmer's daughter?

While I was at the marina in the city of Balneario Camboriu on the island of Santa Catarina, Brazil, my boat was boarded while I was sleeping. I woke up while he was unhooking my Garmin chartplotter in the cockpit. From the chart table just thru the companionway I hit him with a stream of bear pepper spray from about 15 feet. He yelled and fell off the boat onto the dock, got up screaming and stumbled down the dock into the brush.

Maybe it doesn't work on the 1000 lb bears where you live, but it works on 150 lb Brazilians.
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Old 17-04-2007, 22:17   #82
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Mikado, I'm glad it worked for you. And even happier that your thief was smart enough not to be carrying a machete--as many have been reported to do when not in marinas.

A man who has just been blinded and po'd waving a machete around can make you reconsider the pros and cons of bear spray. Obviously(?) your guy has been arrested before and didn't want a weapons charge as well. It is all too rare to find such gentlemen and professionals in a rough trade, where all the riffraff give old fashioned theives a bad name.
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Old 17-04-2007, 22:33   #83
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Boaters kill manatees with their props, should be ban all props in order to protect the manatees from the few irresponsible boaters?
That would work for sure, but not quite realsitic.

Imposse speed limitis in Manatee zones, say 2 knots, gives the sluggish beast time to swim away, and the boater time to see and avoid..Or even stop.

We may not agree on guns and gun control Mr. hellosailor: You think they do more good than bad, I think the oppsosite.

Guess I value human life more:
If one life can be saved by strict gun control, then that is a success and well worth it.

Quote:
With all our problems, the US is still the number one destination for travel and immigration in the world.
Ask the recent victims and their families.
Bet they would want to emmigrate somewhere else if they could see violent deaths in their near future because guns keep ending up in the wrong hands.

Quote:
I am also unconcerned about self inflicted gun wounds. If you want to off yourself then not having a gun isn't going to stop you. Mixing in the accidents and suicides makes the numbers meaningless when talking comparisions of murder rates.
Guns makes it so much easier to kill yourself or a bunch of other people.

Immagine some postal worker or high school drop-out wanting to commit mass murder with a screw driver or a bread knife.
He would be put down in a few minuttes with maybe one or two victims behind him.
With a gun and plenty of ammo, he can wreck much more havoc.

(Don't belive that? Get a reality check and turn on CNN)

Quote:
Bear pepper spray will stop anyone trying to board your boat dead in their tracks. The problem with any non-lethal solution is that the bad guy has the option of returning.
They may have the option of returning, but even a brain-dead thief would not return anytime soon to the same boat that gave him a full dose of pepper spray in the face.

The boat would probably be gone as well....
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Old 18-04-2007, 09:37   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSY Man
Guns makes it so much easier to kill yourself or a bunch of other people.

Immagine some postal worker or high school drop-out wanting to commit mass murder with a screw driver or a bread knife.
He would be put down in a few minuttes with maybe one or two victims behind him.
With a gun and plenty of ammo, he can wreck much more havoc.

(Don't belive that? Get a reality check and turn on CNN)
Now imagine said wacko using explosives (home made from legal componets). They still kill people. Or a chain saw. And I dare say they would wreak a lot of havoc with one until the police showed up with their guns.

Unfortunatly this debate, like some others, will not change anyone's opinion. If you enjoy owning guns then you will. If you don't, you won't.

My personal opinion is gun laws stop law abiding citizens from owning guns. They do not stop criminals and wackos from doing so (kinda what makes them criminals and wackos really). The laws might make it harder, and more expensive, for them to get the guns in their hands, but isn't a sure fire way to stop them.
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Old 18-04-2007, 09:46   #85
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Now imagine said wacko using explosives (home made from legal componets). They still kill people. Or a chain saw. And I dare say they would wreak a lot of havoc with one until the police showed up with their guns.
Yeah, but the wackos keep using guns, not explosives or chain saws.

Quote:
The laws might make it harder, and more expensive, for them to get the guns in their hands,
Perhaps that is a good thing then.
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Old 18-04-2007, 18:04   #86
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I sympathize with the gun-control crowd and if I believed a total ban would solve the problem, I'd be calling for it too. But I'm not so naive; I wish for world peace, but I don't expect it to be achievable anytime soon either. Another story in the news - the mayor of Nagasaki was gunned-down on Tuesday. Japan probably has the most stringent gun-control laws in effect; and there never was a "gun-culture" there. Civilians cannot own handguns, period, full-stop. Yet a side-note in the article stated that between the years 1996-2005, Japanese police confiscated 8180 illegal handguns. That's just the ones they found - the tip of the iceberg; you can imagine how many illegal guns are still out there. So ask yourselves if a total ban would work.
BTW, humans have gone on killing sprees since the beginning of time, and they do use other methods besides firearms - machetes, axes, automobiles, clubs, explosives, poison gas, etc etc. Some methods are less efficient than firearms, some are more efficient. The only way to stop it is to turn the country into a police-state run by Big Brother; psychological profiling of all; internment or chemical sedation of all potential crazies - unfortunately, most boat-owners would fit in that category
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Old 18-04-2007, 19:05   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodesman
I sympathize with the gun-control crowd and if I believed a total ban would solve the problem, I'd be calling for it too. But I'm not so naive; I wish for world peace, but I don't expect it to be achievable anytime soon either. Another story in the news - the mayor of Nagasaki was gunned-down on Tuesday. Japan probably has the most stringent gun-control laws in effect; and there never was a "gun-culture" there. Civilians cannot own handguns, period, full-stop. Yet a side-note in the article stated that between the years 1996-2005, Japanese police confiscated 8180 illegal handguns. That's just the ones they found - the tip of the iceberg; you can imagine how many illegal guns are still out there. So ask yourselves if a total ban would work.
BTW, humans have gone on killing sprees since the beginning of time, and they do use other methods besides firearms - machetes, axes, automobiles, clubs, explosives, poison gas, etc etc. Some methods are less efficient than firearms, some are more efficient. The only way to stop it is to turn the country into a police-state run by Big Brother; psychological profiling of all; internment or chemical sedation of all potential crazies - unfortunately, most boat-owners would fit in that category
for what it's worth, it was almost certain that the shooter in the Nagasaki case was yakuza, because the Japanese mob are the only ones that can get guns. But, of course, the vast majority of gun crimes in the U.S. are crimes of passion not mob hits.
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Old 18-04-2007, 19:05   #88
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Our hearts go out to the families of those lost in Virginia and our best wishes to those who survived - no matter what the stance on the weapons used, I have to wonder why some of the young guys there did not attack the gunman enmass and wrestle him to the ground and subdue him. I know that fright or shock and surprize many times immobilize us from acting but as he walked around the room or through the college hall, why didn't someone try to jump him. If I thought he was coming for me and I was going to be shot, I'd go for him as best I could.

It is too sad he wasn't stopped sooner and of course the gun debate will heat up once again in most western countries. Problem is you could ban all guns but the bad guys would still get them through illegal means or the black market smuggled in from other countries. It would not be a deterent for the crazies out there but a mandatory life sentence - no parole for any intentional death caused by a firearm or other weapon may reduce the rates of occurance. Death sentence for capital murders - police and public officials killed while on duty. Automatic deportation of any immigrant back to country of origin and re-entry banned for life for any weapons related conviction. Stricter control on the purchase, posession and movement of handguns - for enthusiasts, handguns could be kept at the range in a vault and for anyone who wanted to carry one, a battery of apptitude and physcological and attitudinal tests could be required with regular qualification re-assesments.

Many may think this is an infringement of their rights, but the situation is getting out of hand and responsible gun owners would not object to a proper qualification system. We have the gun registery in Canada and though the way it was implimented was ineffectual, most of us who own guns did not object to registering our guns. I just received the renewal for my possession and aquisition license and it is now controlled by the RCMP. I know that guns can be made unidentifiable by removing serial numbers, however, if they are stolen, there is some chance they will be identified if found or used in a crime and it may help prevent a tragedy - even one wrongfull death - would be worth the registration hassel.

I keep them in a gun vault with trigger locks on all of them. Ammo is stored in a separate locked container within that vault. The keys to all the trigger locks and ammo case are locked up in another part of the house. It would be near impossible for a thief or home invader to get at them and very difficult for me or a member of my family to get at them to commit a crime of passion. I am not that worried about needing them for self defence.

All of us have to consider all the ramifications to gun ownership and use and act accordingly. I believe there can be some middle ground on this issue between the two sides and suggest for the safety of the innocent and law abiding citizens, and for the enjoyment of hunters and gun enthusiats that an effective system be devised and implemented.
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Old 19-04-2007, 03:12   #89
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Let's get back on-topic!

While the larger gun debate may be interesting, and pose important questions for the future of our societies, the CruisersForum is NOT the place to debate the broad issues.

Recalling vanaller’s (Robert) initial query
ie: ”Does anyone out there have information regarding carrying firearms for protection while cruising ...”), and the spirit that motivated it (and the other gun thread) - I would like to redirect all participants back to an appropriate discussion of firearms & cruising.
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Old 22-04-2007, 00:26   #90
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Does anyone have a 50 Cal. amour piercing machine Gun with a bow mount. Would make a heck of a conversation piece back at the local marina during Happy hour. LOL
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